My Second Build Attempt

[verhoevenc]

God! These builds are frickin' hot!

Chris

[FadeAway]

Sexy. Once this is done, it has my vote for GOTM

[sdshirtman]

Kind words and thank you.

Its been a bit since I updated. I've just been busy.

After making these truss covers I started thinking about how I was going to mount them. My first thought was to just run a screw through the top of em and be done with it.

But after spending some time staring at these and contemplating what I could do different, I decided I thought it would be cool to attach it with magnets and not have any screw showing at all. I'm certain its been done before but in all the build threads I've searched though and seen I haven't seen it done yet.

Anyways heres a brief explanation of how I did it. Pretty simple actually.

Fist off, this would have been easier to install if I decided to do this beforehand, but since this was a last min idea I had to figure out a way to get it done the way it was.

First off I bought some 1/4" dia. x 1/32" thick rare earth magnets. They're cheap at 10X for $1.50.

The next challenge was matching the counter sunk cavities on the truss cover to the cavities on the headstock so that they would line up properly. Making a reversible paper template was the answer for me. I traced out the truss cover of a piece of paper then took traced out the cavity for the truss adjustment and used that to figure out where the magnetic discs would go. Then I cut that out and used it as a guide to mark where I'd do the magnet recesses.

I took the same paper template and flipped it over and traced out the recess placement on the truss cover.

Then I used a 1/4" endmill chucked up in the drill press to do the recesses on the truss covers. I used an endmill because its dead flat on the bottom. You could get away with a 1/4" router but I guess but they can leave a little knob you have to remove.

Then I set the recesses on the headstock using the marking I made with the template.

The hardest part about this was aligning the bit with the markings and clamping the neck down.

I had several reservations about boring down into this headstock. I could have easily just run a damn screw through the center of the cover like PRS does to their truss rod covers and been done with it. Despite this I moved forward.

Next part (and I didnt document this well) was to glue in the magnets. Each set of two magnets wants to mate with each other in a certain natural way. North- north , south south ect. I let that happen then marked the outsides and the orientation so that I could glue them in and not have them repel each other. Pretty basic but if you don't get this detail correct it the polarities might not match correctly and it wont work correctly.

Anyhow here they are installed.

Edited February 4, 2012 by sdshirtman

[sdshirtman]

Cont...

After I got this finished with this it became apparent that a single picture or two would show how cool this turned out so I has to shoot a quick video. Maybe its just novelette to me right now but I'm really stoked with the final outcome.

Oh and by the way this little modification took up the bast part of my Friday night. But I think it was worth the extra time.

I almost forgot, I did some finishing experiments last weekend.

Using water based dyes I finished staining a few samples. I'm happy with the blue but still have to refine the amber color to be a bit lighter so it stands off and contrast against the drk brown walnut binding. Either way I'm bringing these to a full finish before I start staining the actual guitars.

I'll post some of the finished sample pieces once I get them leveled and polished.

Edited February 4, 2012 by sdshirtman

[Anthony]

Can I buy the finished scraps? Lol. The magnet thing is awesome. The trc on my stinnett is held like that. Screws are so 20th century.

[ScottR]

Magnets are just fun.

And as much as I like the way your TR access looks, I must admit that the covers are very nicely done. Given the shapes and materials involved, I cannot conceive of any design that would surpass what you came up with.

The details are often what sets a body of work above all the others and so far yours have been exquisite.

SR

[Prostheta]

My only concern would be the magnetism induced in the strings from six rare earth mags in proximity. Although I have no direct experience working with magnetically mounted truss rod covers (only cavity covers) I would be worried that the additional magnetism in the strings might affect the vibration or the way they vibrate in the flux of the pickups. You might want to make sure that the strings have no magnetism before you mount the pickups by checking with some iron filings or something. Hopefully somebody with direct experience can corroborate or disprove this theory. I am a paranoid kind of person in these situations.

How DO magnets work, anyway.

[sdshirtman]

Thanks for the compliment Scott.

My only concern would be the magnetism induced in the strings from six rare earth mags in proximity. Although I have no direct experience working with magnetically mounted truss rod covers (only cavity covers) I would be worried that the additional magnetism in the strings might affect the vibration or the way they vibrate in the flux of the pickups. You might want to make sure that the strings have no magnetism before you mount the pickups by checking with some iron filings or something. Hopefully somebody with direct experience can corroborate or disprove this theory. I am a paranoid kind of person in these situations.

How DO magnets work, anyway.

Magnetic interference with the pickups didnt really concern me too much because the amount of distance the magnets are away from them.

Thats a great idea on the iron filings. I tried it on a spare string and its not a factor. The string does get magnetized but just barely and it only stretches down maybe an inch from the strongest RE magnet I have on hand which is 3 times as big as the ones I installed.

[nowa90]

I really like the idea of moving the drill table out of the way to do that kind of thing, tuners on scarf joints can be tricky without it!

[sdshirtman]

OK I have some finishing questions so feel free to chime in here and give me your opinions or open up a discussion.

Bear with me as I explain myself and my thoughts on this.

First off.

On my neck I used ca glue to grain fill the walnut binding thinking that on the fretboard face it would get some lemon oil or similar and on the sides and back it would get true oiled with the headstock face getting lacquered in gloss clear. Well that was the original plan.

Now I'm thinking that mixing the two methods is maybe redundant and could have negative reactions and or potential compatibility finishing problems later. One scenario that has crossed my mind is the transition from lacquer to tru oil on the headstock. Specifically where the binding goes around it. If I tru oil the sides of the headstock and lacquer the face of the headstock there could be some kind of line where the two different finishes meet.

Pondering on this I think the best thing to do would be to simply lacquer the entire neck minus the fretboard face (obviously) but I'm not sure.

What I dont like about this is that I like the slicker feel of a satin finished neck vs glossy. The thought of finishing the neck in gloss and then adding a final coat or satin or semi gloss on the back of the neck has crossed my mind. Maybe bringing the satin to the line were the volute is.

Then again I dont know what would happen to this semigloss section when I buffed out the neck. *sigh*

Second is the walnut binding on the body. Again my original plan was to tape it off and grain fill it with ca glue. First purpose would be to grain fill and the second would be to protect the walnut from the stain I'll be using on the front. I'll be using vinyl masking tape to mask the binding when I stain the front but I'm sure some stain will inevitably creep under somewhere. From my experience using ca glue for filler on the walnut binding works well but is very time consuming and messy.

My other option would be to mask off everything but the binding on the body and spray it with lacquer instead. This gets me more indecisive because my research tells me I could use vinyl sealer in place of lacquer on this part if I wanted to. Then again I used the ca glue on the neck so using it on the binding would insure uniformity in my finish.

I'm really striving to build the best guitar I can an finish is a huge part so help me figure out the best plan of attack on this.

[Anthony]

More cowbell.

[sdshirtman]

More cowbell.

Always makes everything better.

Anyone else?

[RestorationAD]

My only concern would be the magnetism induced in the strings from six rare earth mags in proximity. Although I have no direct experience working with magnetically mounted truss rod covers (only cavity covers) I would be worried that the additional magnetism in the strings might affect the vibration or the way they vibrate in the flux of the pickups. You might want to make sure that the strings have no magnetism before you mount the pickups by checking with some iron filings or something. Hopefully somebody with direct experience can corroborate or disprove this theory. I am a paranoid kind of person in these situations.

How DO magnets work, anyway.

Magnetic interference with the pickups didnt really concern me too much because the amount of distance the magnets are away from them.

Thats a great idea on the iron filings. I tried it on a spare string and its not a factor. The string does get magnetized but just barely and it only stretches down maybe an inch from the strongest RE magnet I have on hand which is 3 times as big as the ones I installed.

@Prostheta -- Really? Really? You are the rocket scientist.

@sdshirtman -- Thank you for appeasing him... he can be silly at times.

I have done enough magnetic covers to tell you that I would be more worried about them staying on rather than them causing adverse effects.

About the only thing I could possibly think of while drinking was maybe getting them too close to the pickups by way of the control cavity and causing an eddy current that hit the bridge pickup. However it would have to be really really close and you would have to do something completely silly like use a 1/4 x 1/4 neo mag to cause even the slightest disturbance.

BTW -- Nice builds

[Prostheta]

CA will just want to migrate into the Maple like crazy. Not the easiest or friendliest substance to work with either. I haven't worked with shellac, however it would be the first thing I would look into.

[ScottR]

On the HS I don't see much point to using tru-oil and lacquer as they are not hugely different in appearance and the face of your HS will look different from the sides even if finished with the same material under normal viewing conditions. The light will hit the face and sides from different angles after all. If you decide to go with both however, I wouldn't worry about a line....assuming your finishes will meet at a corner/edge the light will create a line to your eye anyway. I'd just use lacquer on the neck and HS (since you're using it on the body anyway. Get your neck all leveled and then spray a light satin using the valute as a border as you mentioned.

I'd go with the vinyl sanding sealer to mask the body binding. It's just easier.

SR

[bob123]

Currents are only induced when you have relative motion between the two magnetic fields. The magnets are also past the nut, and the string tension past the nut will be far higher then the string tension before the nut. Magnets are far too small to cause any interference of any kind.

Have you decided on colors yet? This build is AMAZING!

[sdshirtman]

On the HS I don't see much point to using tru-oil and lacquer as they are not hugely different in appearance and the face of your HS will look different from the sides even if finished with the same material under normal viewing conditions. The light will hit the face and sides from different angles after all. If you decide to go with both however, I wouldn't worry about a line....assuming your finishes will meet at a corner/edge the light will create a line to your eye anyway. I'd just use lacquer on the neck and HS (since you're using it on the body anyway. Get your neck all leveled and then spray a light satin using the valute as a border as you mentioned.

I'd go with the vinyl sanding sealer to mask the body binding. It's just easier.

SR

Ok then let me ask you this. Why vinyl sealer instead of lacquer or lacquer sanding sealer? Could I get the same effect from regular lacquer? I've read somewhere that vinyl sealer has better moisture blocking properties. But will the vinyl sealer dry as clear as lacquer?

One of the reasons I ask is vinyl sealer is hard to find where I am and I dont want have to order it.

[sdshirtman]

OK never mind. I found some.I had to drive 20 miles to get some though.

[ScottR]

Ah...

I've used vinyl sanding sealer on many projects and it sands easy fills easy and dries quickly. I've used lacquer sanding sealer and had blush problems out the wazoo. Regular lacquer as a sealer would be fine...not as friendly as vinyl but fine. I was under the impression that was not a first choice of yours so I suggested an alternative. Vinyl does sand and clean up easier

SR

[sdshirtman]

Have you decided on colors yet? This build is AMAZING!

The Aussie build is getting Blue and the other is getting a tobacco-ish burst. I've been working on some sample slabs. The blue is is right where I want it but the tobacco is looking a little dark. I like the color but I dont think it will fit well with the dark binding. Maybe it will. Hell I dont know. I might do another round of lighter samples before I attack that one.

Here are the finished and buffed samples.

See what I mean?

I finished routing the pickup cavities this week. While routing I felt that my bit was losing its bite but stupidly kept going thinking "its just a little more to go" and got burnt. The thin section of wood over the top pickup just completely blew out. Thankfully it blew out in three whole pieces and I was able to find them. I managed to puzzle them back in place and wicked some water thin CA glue in the cracks to mend it back together.

Its not pretty on the sides but it will never show. It does bum me out though. This is the first bad thing thats really happened so far on this build.

I replaced the bit with a craftsman 1" pattern bit I found on sale at a Sears by my house that was closing. It only cost me 9 bucks. Lesson learned. Its almost as bad as the one before it and was a total waste of money. It will now be used only for routing new templates out of MDF.

This weekend I finished off the build by installing the jack plate. Since it was installed on a radius curve it sticks out a little bit on one edge. I fixed that with a fine file and brought it flush with the body. I'll polish it up with some micro mesh before it gets its final install.

Ah...

I've used vinyl sanding sealer on many projects and it sands easy fills easy and dries quickly. I've used lacquer sanding sealer and had blush problems out the wazoo. Regular lacquer as a sealer would be fine...not as friendly as vinyl but fine. I was under the impression that was not a first choice of yours so I suggested an alternative. Vinyl does sand and clean up easier

SR

Scott I took your advice and used vinyl sealer on the binding. There might be an easier way to do this but I couldn't think of one. I ended up masking off everything but the binding and spraying several coats. It was nice to finally see the walnut darkening up to its final color.

It was time consuming taping it off. I used Scotch 471 Series BLUE Plastic Fine Line Tape for the edges. I dont want and cant have any bleeding here.

Edited February 21, 2012 by sdshirtman

[sdshirtman]

Not wanting anything adverse to happen to the masked edge I peeled all the masking off about 3 hours after the third or fourth coat of sealer dried.

The blue vinyl masking tape did its job extremely well. There was only one very small bleed on the edge next to the mahogany and it cleaned up with some sandpaper.

At this point I started wondering if I'll have to do this step twice. Once I start the first steps of the hand rubbed burst which will be the dark stain and sand back I think all of the sealer on the top edge of the binding is going to sand completely off and need to be re masked and applied. I hope not but I really dont see any way around it.

The last thing to cover is the pickup rings. I decided to fill the grain on these with deft sanding sealer. It took 5 or 6 light coats to start sealing the grain then I tediously sanded back to almost bare wood and then shot a few more light coats of the sanding sealer. After that was dry it got tediously sanded back with 220. I started shooting the first coats of lacquer on them tonight.

Here it is after sanding the sealer and right before the lacquer coats. By the way you're looking at the bottoms of em.

I still have no idea how I'm going to buff and polish these things without breaking them. Personal note: Stay away from wood binding and pickup rings on your next build and give some plastic rings and binding a try. But that would be too easy right?

Thats it for now. I plan on shooting some video of when I do the hand rubbed stain processes. If they come out well they might serve to give some tips to others. There are a lot of tutorials on most aspects of guitar building but not too many good ones on hand rubbed bursts. I should know, I've looked at all of em.

Thanks for all the positive comments and advice. Keep em coming. Until my next installment. . . . .

Ciao.

Edited February 21, 2012 by sdshirtman

[verhoevenc]

Dude! Look at this picture!

Now imagine the black line left by the cord in front of the camera isn't a cord at all... but the area it "carves out" is actually a decorative route-down and the "black" you're seeing it the shadow from the edge above it, blocking part of the deep route-down. Purely aesthetic, yes, but it looks hot! I mean, just look at how the route down would perfectly meet the tip at the rear. Hot.

These are hot builds anyways too. For sure!

Chris

[Anthony]

That guy^^^^ is on to something. Would look pretty sweet anyway. And the build so far is absolutely amazing. All these small nuances like the tearout fix and bad router bits are being stored in my head for later use. That body shape is so tasty though.

[ScottR]

I was looking at that shot too. For a different reason. I love that tobacco burst exactly as it is. The walnut binding will show up as a lighter different shade of brown. I suppose you could let the top edge of the binding get sanded off and dyed with the top. Then the color break would be at the corner. I've never seen it done, but it could work. Maybe you should bind a test piece to see what whatever you come up with works.

SR

[sdshirtman]

Dude! Look at this picture!

Now imagine the black line left by the cord in front of the camera isn't a cord at all... but the area it "carves out" is actually a decorative route-down and the "black" you're seeing it the shadow from the edge above it, blocking part of the deep route-down. Purely aesthetic, yes, but it looks hot! I mean, just look at how the route down would perfectly meet the tip at the rear. Hot.

These are hot builds anyways too. For sure!

Chris

That guy^^^^ is on to something. Would look pretty sweet anyway. And the build so far is absolutely amazing. All these small nuances like the tearout fix and bad router bits are being stored in my head for later use. That body shape is so tasty though.

Interesting observation on the camera strap. I gotta admit its kind of cool but at the same time way out there. If I ever end up doing a shape like that it will be an interesting story of how it came to be.

I was looking at that shot too. For a different reason. I love that tobacco burst exactly as it is. The walnut binding will show up as a lighter different shade of brown. I suppose you could let the top edge of the binding get sanded off and dyed with the top. Then the color break would be at the corner. I've never seen it done, but it could work. Maybe you should bind a test piece to see what whatever you come up with works.

SR

My significant other thinks I should do it that dark too. I'm torn on it. I like the darker edge too but just want the binding I worked so hard on to show nicely.

Oh did I mention that on that sample that if I turn it 180 degrees the dark flame almost completely disappears? I have high hopes for this finish.