sirspens Posted March 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Thank you for the (somewhat) encouraging words. haha. I am developing ideas to fix the neck situation. But my weeks get busy like falling down a hill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) 18 hours ago, Prostheta said: I respectfully disagree with some of those points. You are free to disagree with all of the points except the one that making a bass counts as double experience points. Edited March 1, 2016 by a2k I better shut up and go drill my bridge holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 If I disagreed with that, it would be like slapping myself in the face. Something which I gathered is not too useful....easily figured out after the first dozen or so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted March 4, 2016 Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 Dropping by to see how you are going with the neck pocket? have you considered gluing in matching strips along the sides of pocket then rerouting with the template clamped down? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted March 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2016 3 hours ago, Muzz said: Dropping by to see how you are going with the neck pocket? have you considered gluing in matching strips along the sides of pocket then rerouting with the template clamped down? That is my plan. But I have had my own neck problems this week that have kept me from getting much of anything done. (I have a bad C2 and C3 that can slip out of place and give me problems from time to time. And this week has been pretty bad.) And this weekend I have to go out of town for a family birthday celebration. So... it is going to be a bit before I can sit down and do the detail work of cleaning up the neck pocket. But I have been going over the plan in my head, so I think once I get around to it, I have a pretty good plan. I have plenty of scraps from the body cut.  The trick will be rounding out the back side correctly so that the two insets fits in smooth. Then I have redrafted the neck pocket template so that I can screw it down instead of relying on double sided tape. Hopefully next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I hear you on that one. I screwed my back up last week moving our son into his new apartment. I'm still in a lot of pain now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted March 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 I finally got a chance to clamp down the guitar and neck, laser straighten it up and use my feeler gauges to figure out the damage done. Luckily, it is not symmetrical! (Sarcasm) The top side gap is 0.025", and the bottom side gap is 0.0365", once the neck is centered and straightened. I'm not sure how to work with dimensions that small. Especially being asymmetrical. I could really use some advice here:Â Would it be better to attempt to veneer (I don't even know where to start there) something to size, or to cut some "blocks"Â in that are too big, and then reroute the sides with a new and more stable template? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 I was beginning to wonder what was going on with your 2 builds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted March 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 2 hours ago, 2.5itim said: I was beginning to wonder what was going on with your 2 builds. Work. Obligations. More than a bit of depression. You know... trying to find time. I'm trying to push forward with the work, but I don't know the best way to move forward at this point. All I can think of is reasons why the solutions I can come up with won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 7 hours ago, sirspens said: I could really use some advice here:Â Would it be better to attempt to veneer (I don't even know where to start there) something to size, or to cut some "blocks"Â in that are too big, and then reroute the sides with a new and more stable template? Glue in oversize blocks and re-route. You'll guarantee a better fit than if you try to glue in veneer to close the gap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 9 hours ago, sirspens said: I finally got a chance to clamp down the guitar and neck, laser straighten it up and use my feeler gauges to figure out the damage done. Luckily, it is not symmetrical! (Sarcasm) The top side gap is 0.025", and the bottom side gap is 0.0365", once the neck is centered and straightened. I'm not sure how to work with dimensions that small. Especially being asymmetrical. I could really use some advice here: Would it be better to attempt to veneer (I don't even know where to start there) something to size, or to cut some "blocks" in that are too big, and then reroute the sides with a new and more stable template? Hi @sirspens I think you are worrying too much about this and overthinking it.  Keep it simple: Remember, you could just bolt it up straight and play it.  Many, many, many teles and strats have gaps. If you want to fill the gap, then you need a sliver of wood at 0.025" and one a bit bigger standard marquetry veneer is 0.6mm thick.  That's a gnats smidgen away from 0.025". Buy a small sheet on eBay for a few $ and cut out a rectangle the right size with a craft knife.  Glue it on the top side of the neck pocket cut two pieces for the bottom side and glue those in too your pocket will now be around 0.01" too tight borrow your wife's/partners/ sisters/ neighbours emery board  nailfile and sand down to a good tight fit remember that the neck itself may be slightly tapered, so trial fit by sliding the neck down into the pocket not sliding it in from the front if, when you tighten it up, it isn't exactly in line, before you file any more away, try the old luthier trick of 'loosen the screws, give the neck a tug, tighten the screws again' This is much closer to being absolutely fine than you think it is 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted March 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 18 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: I think you are worrying too much about this and overthinking it. Â Keep it simple: Oh, you can be assured I am overthinking it. That's what I do. My biggest concern is getting everything locked down tight and straight so that I can drill holes that will result in the neck being straight, given that there is so much play. I guess it is better than the neck being tight but not straight! I should have some time tomorrow evening. So I am going to attempt to do exactly that. Get my laser level, calipers and clamps out, and see if I can't nail it. I guess worst case scenario is that I screw it up, patch up the holes with some dowels and try again after the glue dries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted March 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Also, here's a question... After one puts on 5 or 6 coats of lacquer to finish off the body (and the neck), how much does that add to the thickness? I guess I can run a test if nobody has ever tried to quantify this before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 Everyone has their own method of lining up the neck.  Mine is that I clamp the neck, usually obscuring some of the holes.  I put a suitably sized nail in one of the uncovered screw holes and press lightly to make a centre indent.  I then take the clamp off, drill that hole.  I then screw that one  in and use this to clamp the neck tight enough to centre mark the remaining holes, having rechecked the straightness. the only critical issue with the straightness is making sure that neither the top string or bottom string get too close to the edge of the fretboard.  Therefore the best way of measuring is to lightly string the two E strings and adjust the angle of the neck until you see both strings equidistant from their edges at the upper frets.  This can be done after the first screw has been put in, using that as your pivot point.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 13 hours ago, sirspens said: Also, here's a question... After one puts on 5 or 6 coats of lacquer to finish off the body (and the neck), how much does that add to the thickness? I guess I can run a test if nobody has ever tried to quantify this before. That will be tricky to get an exact number without having a standard for what a coat is, and given the fact that it will shrink for the next few months. In general, after I've sprayed all the coats of lacquer I'm going to, let it cure for 3 weeks and leveled and polished I've got a layer of lacquer roughly 1mm +/- 25% thick. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted March 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 29 minutes ago, ScottR said: In general, after I've sprayed all the coats of lacquer I'm going to, let it cure for 3 weeks and leveled and polished I've got a layer of lacquer roughly 1mm +/- 25% thick. I understand there is no way to say definitively, since spray applying isn't exact, but thank you very much for the rough estimate! If that is the case, and I finish out the neck relief and finish the neck, it is actually going to be a tight fit. 1mm = 0.04", and I am off by less than that on each side, according to my feeler gauge measurements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted March 15, 2016 Report Share Posted March 15, 2016 There you go! SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted March 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 So, this evening I took an attempt at bolting on the neck. I drew my center line down the back of the guitar, center-lined the back of the neck. Clamped it down... The neck went on really level. Even though in these pictures it looks a bit off, it measures completely flat, what you are seeing is just a bit of gap, because, you know, that is the problem I have been having... So then I got out the ole laser level to see how things lined up... So, when the laser is straight down the center line, it hits just a bit off center of the neck. If you line it up so that it hits the middle of the nut, you can see it is a bit off. I measured it. 0.195degrees off. 0.0465" off at the neck joint. S0, even though I tried to align it as best I could, and used my drill press to make sure the holes drilled into the neck were as straight and dead on as possible, All the gap went to the "top" side.... The guitar looks good, though.... So, of course, here is my question: Is that enough to be worried about? 0.195 degrees? Do I cant the bridge to align with the neck? Do I keep the bridge where it was going to go? If you run a string from either E string, it is about 0.6mm off from where you want it to be in the "vertical" direction. I just have no clue what the margin of error is for doing this. I'd obviously love to nail it perfectly, but I'm not sure if that is reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 That you are able to examine and quantify these errors deserves applause. In reality, it won't matter. I think it's good to know that room for adjustment exists in there, and just to shift the neck into place during final assembly. Fenders are easy to do this to. Loosen the screws a bit and force the neck one way or the other. It's getting to the point of hair splitting I think. I'd find something bigger to worry about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirspens Posted March 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, Prostheta said: That you are able to examine and quantify these errors deserves applause. In reality, it won't matter. I think it's good to know that room for adjustment exists in there, and just to shift the neck into place during final assembly. Fenders are easy to do this to. Loosen the screws a bit and force the neck one way or the other. It's getting to the point of hair splitting I think. I'd find something bigger to worry about. Good. I'm moving on, then. I'm going to finish getting my bridge and volume knob located. I guess I should do a test setup, string it up and wire it in before moving on to finish. I can probably get that done before the end of the week, then move on to sanding this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 I'm of the opinion that discrepancies in a project can be allowed "just to be" as long as they can be learned from for the next build. There gets a point where you fret about details and lose sight of the bigger picture. The neck can be shifted into alignment which is what is important here. At least, that's my take on it. I can't tell you how to feel about it, just outline how critical it is or isn't! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Looking good to me Well done, and as @Prostheta says, it's time to move on... .  I've also made a mental note to myself to never buy a laser measure...that degree of accuracy in any of my builds would worry the hell out of me i love the overall look, by the way.  Really nice design. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 When you are building your first one, trying to get everything to be exactly as the plans say they should be is only natural, but you have not yet developed a feel for what is critical and what is not. And we are all our own worst critics. In reality there are many little options available to get what you have where you need it. A few things need to be extremely accurate, like fret spacing and nut placement. And if you've ever seen a True temper (sp?) fretboard, you may wonder about that. Your fretboard can't be twisted but it can be higher on one side than the other. You build your nut to account for that, you adjust your bridge saddle height to go with the frets. You intonate by adjusting the scale length of each string. So much about what makes a guitar play well is about feel, and that is not necessarily achieved by matching measurements to the nth degree. I think you'd be shocked if you grabbed a few guitars off the shelf and measured the degree of accuracy to which they were built. We all went through this to some degree. Yours looks like it is going to feel great. Carry on and get it finished and set up and see if that is not the case. SR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 That's a great way of phrasing it Scott. I agree, since I have developed a lot of "feel" for where tolerances tend to compound into errors and the like. Teaching Nina to work machinery such as the pin router, and how to make various jigs has been enlightening as to what I take for granted. Often you can't adequately or easily substitute experience in some things. Hitting kinks along the way are a great way of forcing you to stop and think about how you got to that point, how to get past it and future prevention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 12 minutes ago, Prostheta said: Teaching Nina to work machinery such as the pin router, and how to make various jigs has been enlightening as to what I take for granted. Teaching is great way to learn what can be taken for granted and for discovering what you've been taking for granted all along. Confusing as hell for the teachee though. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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