Finished Pics! A little acoustic 6-string for little people

[Andyjr1515]

If ever there was a 'measure 15 times and glue once...it's fitting the bridge' 

I am using a couple of pieces of cocktail stick to use as positioning pegs:

 

And then masking tape over the whole area, bridge positioned with the cocktail sticks, scored round with a scalpel and peeled off where the bridge will go:

You can never have too many clamps! :

And - here is the voice of experience - a peel off of the tape once all the squeeze out has squeezed out but before it hardens!

Ref @curtisa's comment about the scale - those are my small clamps 

[Bizman62]

That tape thing is utterly clever in its simplicity!

[Andyjr1515]

35 minutes ago, Bizman62 said:

That tape thing is utterly clever in its simplicity!

It's the 'conventional' method.  For acoustics, the traditional method is that the body is actually finish varnished before the bridge is fitted (yes, I know...seems crazy at first look).  And then the same method is used to protect the varnish around the bridge from any squeeze-out...but you have to razor-blade remove the varnish within that tape outline so that the bridge glue is wood-to-wood.

It seems mad at first glance, but that really is the standard way it's done but is done so that the bridge doesn't interfere with the application of the top finish (especially if brushing or wiping on)

[Bizman62]

2 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

For acoustics, the traditional method is that the body is actually finish varnished before the bridge is fitted

I've seen that being done. Memory tells me that a piece of masking tape can be used to take the bulk out the scraping, then again I recall having seen the bridge been glued on that bare strip only in misbelief that the glue would hold on the varnish well enough.

[curtisa]

14 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I've recently fitted the bridge plate.   I went searching for some thin, hard, sheet wood in my bits box for it and found the perfect thing.  It's a piece of Tasmanian hardwood given to me by a genuine Tasmanian whom I met, along with his delightful wife, in a pub in deep, dark rural UK a few years ago.  'Here!' he said, rummaging in his bag, 'I gift you these three magic talismans.  They will bring you joy - but you MUST secrete them into special objects.  If you do NOT, then over time you will go grey, wrinkled, start forgetting where you put your car keys and probably start dribbling a little!'

Well...maybe not my exact words, but I do recall handing over some slices of tree to you. I honestly had forgotten there were three bits. I recognise the first two in those photos - what was the third one I gave you?

[Andyjr1515]

On 10/7/2023 at 4:09 AM, curtisa said:

I recognise the first two in those photos - what was the third one I gave you?

I'll find it next time I'm rummaging in my bits box.  It's a small, bookmatched piece that you sanded to a polish and has some lovely browns and hints of red.  I can't remember the species. 

 

[Andyjr1515]

One of the nice things about doing stuff on a small scale is that I've been able to experiment a bit - and some things will now be incorporated if I build another full-size one sometime

One thing on full-sized ones I've struggled with is on the backs -  getting the traditional back brace and centre strip arrangement to hold the spheroidal shape after I take it out of my 15 foot radius dish.  What I find is that the radius-bottomed cross braces hold the curve in one direction, but the traditional cross-grain centre strip has no chance of holding the lengthway radius and so what I end up with is a section from a lengthways cylinder and not a sphere.

Surely what it needs is proper radius-bottomed lengthways braces??

Like these:

 

To my admitted surprise...it worked!!!! 

 

So today's job, after I've added a label, is gluing the back on

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

OK - further to the discussion @ADFinlayson and I had on his thread (his superb acoustic builds), this below the way I personally glue the bindings. 

And here, the disclaimer that I used to put on all of my build threads: "I'm always happy to describe what I do and why...but never assume that this is how it should be done and that I know what I'm doing.  I simply find that it works for me with my (limited) skills and equipment"  

So why don't I apply bindings the 'normal' way? 

Because I can't stand the 12 hours of sheer hope, once I've taped and bound the glued bindings, the hope that once I unbind it the joints are all going to be tight and gap-free. 

Because, for me, they never were gap free.  Oh, the dashed hopes!  Oh, the anguish!                 

And so a year or two back, I had a crazy idea.  The way I apply veneer is that I apply a decent PVA wood glue to both surfaces, I let both surfaces fully dry unjoined, and then position the veneer and iron it on.  Yes - with a standard household iron.  There are tips and tricks, like all the things we do, but my veneer results have been pretty much successful from the first one I tried after learning of the method.

So could it be done with bindings?

Well. I tried it on a build a few years ago, and I've used the method ever since.  And that is how I am going to do this one. 

I had already applied the purfling using the same method, but now it was time for the pre-bent ebony bindings.

For what it's worth (see above disclaimer), this is my method:

-  I tend to use the 'standard' white PVA wood glue available in UK simply because I know it works.  I have successfully used Titebond also, but I am a creature of habit

-  I put a thin coat on ALL joining surfaces and let them dry (usually around 30 mins - longer is fine).  Here below, the white bits are simply the areas that haven't yet dried - there is glue on every bit of every single joining surface ***this is important***

 

- Because the glue surfaces are then dry, I can position and re-position everything as often as I like until I'm happy I know where to start.  I use the hot iron, an inch at a time, to melt the glue between the two surfaces.  While the glue is molten, it melds together and the binding is moveable for final positioning.

- While still hot, I press the binding from the top to fully seat it into the channel:

- I then hold the binding in place with gloved hand for 15-20 seconds during which the melted glue re-solidifies and is fully re-solidified.

- I then move round to the next inch or so

- The melting is FULLY repeatable.  So if I realise that it isn't quite seated properly, I just put the iron on it for a few seconds to remelt it, close the gap and hold it for the 15-20 seconds to resolidify

- The binding is ready for trimming/scraping immediately.  This whole side is around 20 minutes after I started ironing it on:

- 30 minutes after starting the ironing, it's fully finished, ready to final sand and varnish if this is your last piece:

  

 

 

The end graft actually isn't yet sanded (I still have the bottom binding to do) but I'm going for simple but (hopefully) elegant:

 

And right or wrong, good or bad, that's the way I do purfling and bindings

 

 

  

[Crusader]

59 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Because, for me, they never were gap free.  Oh, the dashed hopes!  Oh, the anguish!                 

I know that feeling!

[ADFinlayson]

Thanks for the explainer Andy, that method looks pretty good. I did actually do similar to repair a gappy joint on my latest one - pressed the protruding binding down with the iron until it stayed put. I think I'll give this method a try to do the whole job next time. 

[Andyjr1515]

9 hours ago, ADFinlayson said:

Thanks for the explainer Andy, that method looks pretty good. I did actually do similar to repair a gappy joint on my latest one - pressed the protruding binding down with the iron until it stayed put. I think I'll give this method a try to do the whole job next time. 

I would maybe have a go on a piece of scrap timber first to make sure you are happy it works and to 'iron out the wrinkles' in the method (yes - I know.  Sorry). 

If you do have a go, I find a travel iron is best in terms of the lightness and the smaller plate that is useful for the waist areas, etc..  Also, clearly shout if you need any more detailed tips and tricks. 

By the way, in terms of glues, I fitted a herringbone purfling yesterday (will post shortly) and used Titebond.  Seemed to work but definitely slightly different in terms of the melt.  Personally, I will continue to use the green-bottle Evostick - I have veneered jobs that are now 10+ years old and they are as tightly bonded as the day I ironed them on. 

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

I've said before to new builders, 'It isn't that experienced builders don't frequently make rookie mistakes - it's just that they get much better at hiding them!' 

And a case in point;

"When you use a binding router, don't forget to put in a temporary end graft in the slot"  Because if you don't, then the router guide will drop into the slot and your binding channel will suddenly become 2mm deeper than you intended"  

Which is why, all of a sudden, I've decided to fit some herringbone purfling on the back!  

Back binding now done, ready for some serious sanding:

 

 

 

Starting to get there.  But it will be a couple of weeks - we have the said little people here over next week, so it's all going to have to be tidied and hidden away!

Here's where we are up to before it goes back into the cupboard later this morning:

 

[Bizman62]

7 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I find a travel iron is best in terms of the lightness and the smaller plate

That or a ski waxing iron! A travel iron may be cheaper but a ski wax iron may be more powerful. And the prices of the cheaper ones aren't much higher than that of a regular travel iron. A tenner this or that way doesn't ruin the economy of a guitar builder anyways.

 

[henrim]

Marvelous thread this one too! I’m reading with interest. Oh, and awesome little instrument too!

On the subject of irons. I thought about mentioning that a heat sealing iron could probably be handy tool in this kind of job too. I got mine for sealing TPU fabrics but I use it for anything that requires moderate heating. 

[Andyjr1515]

21 hours ago, henrim said:

Marvelous thread this one too! I’m reading with interest. Oh, and awesome little instrument too!

On the subject of irons. I thought about mentioning that a heat sealing iron could probably be handy tool in this kind of job too. I got mine for sealing TPU fabrics but I use it for anything that requires moderate heating. 

Yes, indeed.  Perfect! 

I used to use a very similar iron - one used for heat-shrinking coverings on r/c model aircraft - which worked well until, at probably 30 years old, it went to that great ironing board in the sky a couple of years ago.  

[Andyjr1515]

Folks who have followed some of my other builds will know that I generally use the Tru-oil slurry and buff method to prepare the finish even if I am going to ultimately varnish it.  This is no exception.  The back of the neck will be left slurry-and-buffed, but the body and headstock will be eventually gloss coated with standard, brushed-on high volatiles (sorry!) polyurethane varnish.

What I use the tru-oil slurry for is to grain-fill, gap-fill and to prepare the surface for finish varnishing.

And don't you just have to love what Tru-oil does for wood! 

First coat applied with 180 grit emery and wiped off.  The top is at the moment simply plain sanded - tru-oil won't be used here as it has too strong a colour and so,at the appropriate stage, I will apply just polyurethane varnish to it.

 

It's a beautiful piece of mahogany...

[Andyjr1515]

Still got quite a bit of finishing off and tweaking to do, but this was the stage that I needed to know if the neck angle was right - and that meant fitting some strings

This is where I'm at:

And with big brother:

The labels give away the family lineage:

[ScottR]

Looks crazy good Andy. I'm a big fan of your offset sound hole rosette/decorations.

SR

[Andyjr1515]

10 hours ago, ScottR said:

Looks crazy good Andy. I'm a big fan of your offset sound hole rosette/decorations.

SR

Many thanks, Scott

It sounds pretty good, which I'm pleased about and closer to guitar than uke . But I'd forgotten just how long nylon strings take to settle down!!

[mistermikev]

what a beautiful outcome.  bravo.  yes the offset looks like a necklace v classy.

[ADFinlayson]

Nice one Andy, it looks fab

[Andyjr1515]

Thanks folks. 

A few more of the final tasks have been completed.  Another week or so and I reckon it will be all  done

One of the things I have now done is change from the 'test the neck angle' slotted bridge pins to solid ebony pins with lead-in slots which @ADFinlayson and I were discussing recently on the build thread of one of his fabulous acoustic builds (see pic below.  Don't worry, by the way - the bridge final carve and sand is one of the outstanding tasks!) .  The increased break angle over the bridge makes such a difference on many full size steel strings.  I can confirm that it makes an equally impressive difference on this little nylon number. 

 

And now it most definitely sounds like a classical guitar and not a ukulele   Well chuffed 

 

 

[ADFinlayson]

NIce one, I need to carve some relief into the back of the bridge on my second build too because I had to sand the saddle down so far to get decent action. 

[ScottR]

One thing I've always meant to ask, and then always forgot is how do you avoid scorching the wood using your iron on method of binding and veneering?

Does the glue melt at a much lower temp than the wood scorches at? And your iron is adjustable enough to account for that?

SR

[Andyjr1515]

10 hours ago, ScottR said:

One thing I've always meant to ask, and then always forgot is how do you avoid scorching the wood using your iron on method of binding and veneering?

Does the glue melt at a much lower temp than the wood scorches at? And your iron is adjustable enough to account for that?

SR

I suppose, theoretically, binding is more at risk from scorching than veneer as - because it is much thicker - it needs a longer application of heat.  That said, even with maple binding, I haven't yet had a problem.  I make sure the iron is always moving - as you do when ironing clothes - and just give it more time to heat through to the glue.  And yes - the glue melts at quite a low temperature and a domestic iron is nowhere near the heat of, say, a heatgun or soldering iron where scorching is a tangible risk.