RGGR Posted September 4, 2005 Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Drak? In your Drak-Do-It-yourself list 1-8, shouldn't there be a couple of layers of clear coat in between item 3 and 4???? At least that how process went down according your previous posts. Now you got me all confused. Second question. You mentioned possible WOD if Sourburst process would fail. Could you have bit more leeway.....if you let the clear coat layers (after bleaching and staining) dry out completely (4-5 days)..........so when you would shoot the burst....and it would not be of your linking.....you could grab some terpentine (paint thinner, whatever) and take the burst layer off again.....while saving the previous layers and start all over again. Now your shooting it semi-wet, and this would leave you no escape route??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted September 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2005 Thanks for the first note, I corrected it. The second note, I have no idea what you're trying to say! If a job goes bad on me, I sand it back. ALL of it, every time. Does that help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 If a job goes bad on me, I sand it back. ALL of it, every time. Does that help? smile.gif I was just refering to technique people use in e.g. old master paintings. They mostly add re-touch and restoration techniques over the existing varnish layers. So if future restorators want to return to original.....they could just take top layer off (layer on top of varnish and leave unrestored bottom layers untouched. In contrast to taking varish off first, and then restoring painting, and adding new varnish to top off everything. I could envision similar process with this burst. Where you would have clear layers (to level it. Item 4. off your DIY list.) and have those layers as your base layer. Meaning you would have these layers dry out completely.....so if added burst layers go sour!! you could take additional layers off of it by simply using thinner....instead of sanding whole guitar back. Currently you shot lacquer layers and minutes/hours later you shot burst layers over it......making it harder to seperate these layers again, later. Does this make more sense???? If not...never mind. Just thinking out loud here!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 I was just refering to technique people use in e.g. old master paintings. They mostly add re-touch and restoration techniques over the existing varnish layers. So if future restorators want to return to original.....they could just take top layer off (layer on top of varnish and leave unrestored bottom layers untouched. In contrast to taking varish off first, and then restoring painting, and adding new varnish to top off everything. I could envision similar process with this burst. Where you would have clear layers (to level it. Item 4. off your DIY list.) and have those layers as your base layer. Meaning you would have these layers dry out completely.....so if added burst layers go sour!! you could take additional layers off of it by simply using thinner....instead of sanding whole guitar back. Currently you shot lacquer layers and minutes/hours later you shot burst layers over it......making it harder to seperate these layers again, later. Does this make more sense???? If not...never mind. Just thinking out loud here!!! ← It doesn't, but that's because you don't seem to understand how lacquer works. What you're describing works with varnish, sure, because the layers don't burn into each other. They're simply layers/coats, and if you sand through one, you'll get the much-dreaded witness lines. With Nitro (and for that matter most finishes used on guitars, including the waterbased stuff like USL and KTM-9, and I believe polyesthers and polyurethanes), the layers melt into each other. You want them to melt into each other, and they should continue to do so. Your guitar finish is a single film, chemically, not a bunch of different layers, so getting rid of one 'layer' is down to accurate sanding, nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted September 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Sorry folks, shows over. I decided that although I got it pretty close to the mockup pic, it wasn't as good as I can do and trashed it this morning. I never finish a guitar unless it is the absolute best I am capable of, and this one didn't measure up to my best. Oh well, it was a fun idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 What!!! You gotta be kidding!? What a shame to throw away such a beautiful piece of wood...I wish I had it... Give it to me! haha! But seriously, too bad...it could have been a great guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlGeeEater Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 what...the...F&#(! NOT fair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 DRAK NOOO. THAT WAS AN AWESOME PIECE OF MAPLE. You could have at least sanded it back and finished it natural-like. ;_; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted September 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Here's how the back turned out. If I'm using 5A quilt, I damn sure better feel like I can take a swim in it, and I didn't feel that way with this, I can do much better, and I know it. And you know my rule...if it's not 100% grade-A kick-ass, I'm not going to waste another minute on it to finish it, spend the money ona neck, bridge, pkps, hardware, etc...it's not worth it. It's a cold hostile world here in the castle for guitar bodies some days. Anyway, here's how the back turned out..not bad for a first attempt at a sourburst, I got close and learned a few things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Sorry folks, shows over. biggrin.gif I decided that although I got it pretty close to the mockup pic, it wasn't as good as I can do and trashed it this morning. Eh!......... ....Any pics of end result. WOuld like to see what got tossed out. What you're describing works with varnish, sure, because the layers don't burn into each other. They're simply layers/coats, and if you sand through one, you'll get the much-dreaded witness lines. With Nitro (and for that matter most finishes used on guitars, including the waterbased stuff like USL and KTM-9, and I believe polyesthers and polyurethanes), the layers melt into each other. You want them to melt into each other, and they should continue to do so. Your guitar finish is a single film, chemically, not a bunch of different layers, so getting rid of one 'layer' is down to accurate sanding, nothing else. Okay.....this makes sense........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay5 Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 If a job goes bad on me, I sand it back. ALL of it, every time. So what happened to that mantra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsilver Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Drak, only you can tell. From the look at the back, I like it, which surprises me because I was very sceptical about the sourburst finish - just not to my taste. For the future, was the veneer vs solid quilt the main contributing factor to the demise - just couldn't get the depth from the veneer? Or was it the finish you were ultimately unhappy about. I'm interested because I was thinking about using veneer on a project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted September 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Yes, the veneer was the main reason I WOD'd it. In the pics it looks nice, but if you saw it in person, it has no real depth to it, it LOOKS like veneer, just like Frank talked about, so if I do another one, it will be using REAL quilt, not veneer. Now, I'm not dissing veneer, I love veneer, but with quilted maple, it didn't fly for me, unless you found a way to stop up the glue at the bottom of the veneer, and I don't feel like going to all that trouble, it's easier to just use the real thing instead. You know, a first attempt at anything should not yield professional results by logic, I've always said that, that to get really spectacular results, a few attempts are usually in order in order to give you time to try it, adjust, then really zero in on the perfect recipe, and so this just bears truth to that, at least for me. Don't feel bad, I don't, I have 3 drying, 4 other Tele's hanging from the Maple tree right now getting final clear coats, and am building 2 right this minute, so there's a truckload of nice Tele's being brewed right now, I just didn't say anything about the others in order to not hijack my own thread here. That one was a nice try, but didn't live up to my standards, but it was a first try, so what the hey? If there is any lesson to be taken from this, it's the same thing I've always said: if it's not exactly what you wanted or expected, no matter how much time you have invested in it, then you're just settling for average or so-so, and that's a crappy attitude to take, real simple. You shouldn't stop until you get exactly what you wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javacody Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Well, the ride was fun while it lasted! On the one hand, you know that you could get a guitar done in 30 days, and this thread was great edutainment. On the other hand. NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! OK, I'm all better now. I'm looking forward to the next apple burst, and I agree, that back didn't turn out the way I was expecting. Also, on a separate note, poly does not melt into the previous layer. If you sand through a layer of poly, strip it and start over (unfortunately, I learned this from experience). Also, regarding the technique of layering clear coats after each color change, you can still sand just that layer off (from what I've read). I've read a lot about stuff but only done a little so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sorbera Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 NOOOOOOOO Don't feed it to the WOD! Send it to me (I'm not kidding...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mledbetter Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 <ambient sounds of medieval torture devices and screams coming from the dungeon> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feylya Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Drak, seriously why don't you just sell off these bodies for dirt cheap instead of smashing them? There are countless amounts of people here that would take that guitar from you in a second. You're just wasting good wood and an even better body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooten2 Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 So does this mean that BigD wins the contest by default?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted September 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Drak, seriously why don't you just sell off these bodies for dirt cheap instead of smashing them? None of my brood escapes the castle walls, ever, how long have you been a member here to NOT know that by now? So does this mean that BigD wins the contest by default?? tongue.gif Why yes it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feylya Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Ironically, I've been here longer than you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Drak, seriously why don't you just sell off these bodies for dirt cheap instead of smashing them? There are countless amounts of people here that would take that guitar from you in a second. You're just wasting good wood and an even better body ← so what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feylya Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Ah, I dunno. I just don't like seeing guitars or guitar bodies being destroyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!!METAL MATT!! Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Ya Drak I can See why this one Was feed to the WOD!! It's still sad to see!! !!METAL MATT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted September 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Drak, seriously why don't you just sell off these bodies for dirt cheap instead of smashing them? There are countless amounts of people here that would take that guitar from you in a second. You're just wasting good wood and an even better body "If one be afraid of the darness that is the night, then one should not tarry about in the eve of the twilight, lest one get caught out after the night has settled in and wraps thee in it's cold dank cloak of gloom and darkness" In other words, ..If you don't want to see guitars crushed and mangled and burned and beaten down, you might consider not reading my threads anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feylya Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 But your guitars are nice Ah, it just annoys me a bit but hey, it's your time, your money and your guitar. Who am I to say anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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