Band Member Problems

[radrobgray]

heres the rundown, I've been playing with our drummer for about 5-6 years. recently, for the past 5-6 months, hes been really flaky, forgets parts to songs, and doesn't seem motivated. we talked to him about that and hes been putting more effort like he used to.

now about 2 months ago he got a job, he said "my first check I'm getting new cymbals, a new beater, snare head, and drum mics." so we we way excited because two of his cymbals are cracked and missing chunks and his snares head is all dipped in. payday comes and he buys a Xbox360. were fine with that, hes entitled to do what he wants with his money. i may also note he has to pay rent and car insurance, but we don't care thats necessity.

a month or so later, he like "im gonna get em this pay check." so we once a gain were excited because we(including him) want to record our stuff and don't want a shatty head or cymbals on the recording (mind you hes know this for several months prior). So I give him a call today to ask about practice and he told me he cant because he has an appointment for a new tattoo. i ask him about the cymbals he ses i cant because the tattoo, its only $100 tho. Then awkward silence and the I'll see ya laters....

now this is my side and i understand it may be different for him but bare with me. but, we have talked to him and explained what we expect because we put forth the same amount of efforts, he agreed....

The other guitarist and I are kinda pissed because we just bought new equipment for the band. we both bought racks worth about $2000 each and then he bought a computer and Pro tools, i bough the mics, cords, and stands for the guitar, a book/dvd on how to use pro tools, and a 8 channel fire wire interface. the other guitarist and i also were planning on going halves on a P.A.

we feel like he doesn't really care to play with us or about getting out there anymore, but he still insists he does. hes not contributing, for example we all sat down to write lyrics, i pass out the paper and pencils. the drummer goes "i don't need this this is all up to you guys". he does the same thing when we ask him how a part sounds or if he likes how the song sounds.

I'm fed up with it and I'm this "><" close to just telling him to pack his drums up and leave, but, its hard for me because I've played with him for so long and until recently he was awesome. sorry to be so long winded, so heres the big question...

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN THIS SITUATION!

[killemall8]

i would let him know if he keeps it up, that he would be gone, give him another week to figure things out, and if it continues,

see ya later!

but thats just me and i dont put up with that kind of crap.

[mammoth guitars]

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN THIS SITUATION!

You have made a good investment, don't stop, get a Boss DR-880 and record your music with the others.

[WAK Guitars]

I'd give the drummer a chance to get stuff together before you give him the boot. It sounds like this drummer must be good if you've been playing with him for this long, and you probably enjoy playing with him when he's on his game. Just tell him that the last 5-6 years have been good but if he's not into it anymore you'd be better off using your time playing with a drummer who IS into it. Which is true, if somebody's not into what their playing their wasting time.

Just my two cents.

[GregP]

He DOES sound flaky, and even sounds like he's not really into it. The only thing I'll say, playing Devil's Advocate, is that although you may want to share songwriting duties, maybe he doesn't feel like a lyricist? And then when you make the effort to extend it into the drum parts, instead of saying, "Yeah, THIS is where I really get to contribute!" he's just feeling pressured or that you're just making excuses to involve him. And if you ARE just using the drum thing as an excuse, he might be detecting it and feeling condescended to.

But yeah... that's just Devil's Advocate... overall he seems disinterested.

Not too many drummers around. If he's any good, you might want to at least give him a bit more time to shape up.

[radrobgray]

although you may want to share songwriting duties, maybe he doesn't feel like a lyricist? And then when you make the effort to extend it into the drum parts, instead of saying, "Yeah, THIS is where I really get to contribute!" he's just feeling pressured or that you're just making excuses to involve him. And if you ARE just using the drum thing as an excuse, he might be detecting it and feeling condescended to.

But yeah... that's just Devil's Advocate... overall he seems disinterested.

Not too many drummers around. If he's any good, you might want to at least give him a bit more time to shape up.

not sure where your going with the "make my effort to extend into the drum parts," also did i make an excuse to involve him and what do you mean by that? (I'm not being defensive just honestly trying to get what you mean.)

none of us feel like lyricist. we came to the agreement long ago that we all contribute even if it doesn't work out, I've written tons of stuff that we all look at and go this sucks and throw it out, lyrics, vocal melody, and guitar parts. how i see it is were not asking him to do something that were not willing to do our selfs. for example if he wanted me to help him come up whit drum parts, hes asked and i have, even though i suck.

thats the thing tho hes good but hes overall a lazy person. this used to be the only thing he was motivated for. this is harder than breaking up

[RGman]

When it all comes down to it, if someone in your band isn't motivated enough, you have to get rid of them IMHO.

But then again, finding a good drummer over here is harder than finding a needle in a haystack.

[GregP]

Sorry, yeah, I realize I didn't communicate very well. I think that you earnestly were including him (as the drummer) in songwriting (needing his drumming expertise and input), but he might have felt it was just an extension of the songwriting pressure.

Of course, not knowing ANY of you, who can say.

[weaponepsilon]

I'd pull his ass aside and ask him what the hell is going on. If he's not getting it, run it by him that everyone has made a huge commitment to the band and he keeps coming up short. Either he pulls it together or he's out. Simple. If there is a solid reason for this spending (like a new chick) tell him that if you guys are gigging it'll probably starting bringing in an income (and impress the ladies). Trust me man, I had the almost exact same problem years ago, except the drummer was trying to bring in his controlling brother as well. We looked at him and told him his brother was never accepted in the band and if he was going to turn tail then I'd give him a ride home. Never looked back. Sad really. I also had a similar issue with my addict drummer who had no cash for anything, rent or otherwise, but wanted to buy a really expensive one off cymbal. Eventually we relented but he ended up taking over my old band studio with his side band and they started chucking invaluable demos and recordings. Even an old rig I was planning on restoring. Man, musicians some in a wide variety of flavors, unfortunately most of them are rotten either in style, attitude, or lack of motivation.

[westhemann]

spunds like he is rethinking his priorities...maybe the band thing was just a phase for him.

Maybe he thinks you guys aren't ever going to be good enough and he is tired of wasting his time.It could be anything really.

In 20 years he may be one of those "I used to play drums once" guys

[erikbojerik]

I've been in a similar situation...the drummer was (and still is) a close friend. In his case, it was a woman (who he almost married). I was pretty much the guy in charge, and to me it was more important to be in a band with friends than to just be in a band, so when the other guys went hard-core and took it upon themselves to kick him out, I left as well and that was the end of it. This was our last year in college, and it would be 5 years before I was in another band...that's the down side.

If I were you, I'd start talking to people and looking for another drummer behind the scenes, but at the same time keep this guy engaged. Increase the level of structure; set precise starting and ending times for rehearsal, tell him exactly which songs he has to know stone cold for which rehearsals, and tell him he's got XX number of weeks/months to get his sh*t together. Maybe all he needs is some clearly-defined boundaries. If he's doing this in the studio, you'll be wasting valuable time...you really have to be efficient when it comes to recording.

For writing, get him out of the lyrics and into the instrumental; I've always found it works well when you start with some riff or set of chord changes at the beginning. Then have the drummer just start playing out a beat that comes naturally to him, so he's really the one who's kicking it off. Then have the bass player start working off that....add guitars once they've got something solid going. Often after you add guitars and build it, a melody will emerge...or you can work on one later.

If you're going ProTools, I assume you've got midi sequencer capability....so you can always write your own midi drum tracks and have them trigger drum samples. A bit of "humanizing" and it will sound good. When it comes to recording real drummers, the pros always chop the hell out of all the audio drum tracks anyway (some guys chop every single hit on every single track from every single mic) so they can better sync it to an accurate clock...so in effect they're doing the same thing, just with the more organic dynamics already present in the audio snippets.

The problem with writing midi drum tracks is that sometimes you come up with stuff that sounds cool, but are beyond the drummer's talent level...you also want to avoid stuff like 5 or 6 simultaneous hits (remembering that real drummers have only 4 limbs...).

[radrobgray]

ok so weve come to the conclution that we should give him a set time period for him to step up to the plate. im not sure how long we should set it up for. our goals are to get him to: 1)play good again, 2)stop forgetting parts of songs, 3) buy the required equipment (new heads for the messed up ones, new cymbals etc).

how long sould i give him? 1 month?

[erikbojerik]

Don't be shy about telling him that if he doesn't step up, you may have to look for another drummer, be honest with the guy.

Then give a month (or as long as it takes to find a new drummer if you don't want to be drummer-less for awhile).

[weaponepsilon]

I'd say a month and start looking in the city pages and local papers for drummers. Set up audition times on days you don't normally practice and test the waters. You might get a guy who comes in and blows you away and you might end up hastening the expulsion of your old drummer.

[radrobgray]

well update...i talked to Chad (other gutiarist) today, he was pissed just like I so he decided to call the drummer. I guess when he called our drummer said he was on his way out. so chad asked "where to?" and drummer ses "guitar center (to buy cymbals)?" Either hes lying to get us off his back or he got my point when we talked yesterday, i hope its the latter. Chad and I figure if he doesent have at least one new cymbal and a better attitude come next practice (monday) hes basically out (untill we get a new drummer) unless during this time he proves his dedication and care for the band.

if he brings the cymbal i wont say a thing, if he doesn't, i'll give'em the rundown on his month timelimit and what not.

although this conflict is not over yet, thanks to all who have chimed in. ive never been in a situation like this before and its really helped me out a ton. once again thanks!

[Sand Paper]

My brother is the drummer in our band, we're all poor. The Amps needs tubes, I have 1 pack of strings and 5 guitars. The other guitarists amp needs major repairs. All the cymbals are broken except for the hi-hats and ride. Drum heads are totaly beaten to beyond crap. Bass player is playing on a Rogue bass for crying out loud, yes, ROGUE. Every show we go out there and smash faces. We have a ton of fun, and people realize it, and they have fun too. We've totally messed up songs live before, pretty much to where we had to stop and figgure out what was going on. At 12am or 1am the crowd is drunk, grumpy and wants to hear some tunes, so you go at it. Every practice we play the set over and over, write some, drink some beer, and have fun. When you can't have fun anymore you need to either take a break or quit. I'd be hard pressed to find people in this city that could do what my band mates do. You told him he needs new stuff, and he's probably trying. Musicians always want the best stuff, no one wants to play on cymbals that sound like aluminum roofing or heads that sound like a rubermaid tub. Settling for that is counter productive, even if the stuff he has now is broken. I'd stick with the guy unless he becomes just totally inept at playing. When he gets the new stuff he'll be all excited again and just want to play the kit all the time and it'll be even more fun then. Plus he now has Xbox 360, so i'd recomend you go take full advantage of that. Not sure if i even made a point here, but music is fun, always have fun.

[tim_ado]

it depends how serious he wants the band to be and how serious he is

i know that if i had a drop kick in my band i wouldnt take it because theres people who are content with being in a "fun" band like sand paper

but some people want to work frieken hard to try and make it and cant be bothered to stuff around with people who cant be bothered

just my take on it

[GregP]

So, it's Tuesday. What was the verdict?

[radrobgray]

Amazingly he brought over a new cymbal and 2 new heads for his kit. we actually played thru our set (only 4 songs) in one try with only minor mistakes, no forgotten parts. if he keeps it up thats great but we told him if he gets lazy again hes out!

[erikbojerik]

if he keeps it up thats great but we told him if he gets lazy again hes out!

What I hear

Fear motivates

Page Hamilton, I Know

[Digideus]

I actually sacked my entire band a few weeks back because of this. Basically, I wrote the music, they other guys were just doin it for a laugh. We had a keys player who didnt know the songs after 18 months, A drummer who didnt like anything we were coming up with, a bass player who said "You write It, Ill play it!" and a singer who couldnt sing that well (although I will give him credit for his attitude and dedication, which were top notch!)

Our other guitarist left because it wasnt what he wanted to do. That I can understand, but it got me thinking that I was wasting my time, and since I jacked the band in, two of my friends (including the ex-guitarist) have nabbed me for their new project!

I guess you need to think of where YOU want to be and if youre not there, make the change. If the drummer proves to be a let down, lose him. Harsh I know, but with that lack of dedication, he will only hold you back. I understand he has bought a new cymbal, and thats great. I hope this means he's taking it as seriously as he needs to, but in all honesty, if ANYONE in your band is hindering you, have a word and take the appropriate action.

I hope it works out for you. I know how hard Bands can be. Its expensive and often an uphill struggle, but the first time you walk out on stage, thats all gone. Just be honest with him (sounds like you have already) and keep that honesty. Its too easy to fall out with people in this business, and as Ozzy Osbourne once said....

"You meet a lot of people on the way up. DONT MESS WITH THEM cos you meet them on the way down as well!"

[darren orr]

Dude, Ive had the same problem for the last couple of years with my drummer. He never pays for practice, never has new skins, always says " yeah im getting this bonus soon and then ill re-skin the kit" (but he had money for that computer, xbox360, nintendo wii, smokes and an ounce of weed a month habit.), hasnt been able to play a full set in nearly 2 years (sure the sets fast, but its also only 8-9 songs!). Me and the guitarist have also not been able to play what we want, due to us improving and the drummer not trying to.

Me, the guitarist and singer called a band meeting in january, to which he couldnt make it due to "blah". So we talked about replacing him, which was my idea (already had someone offer to drum for us), and we decided to talk to him. So his reply was "yeah im working on my health and fitness, and im getting my finances sorted."

So 7 months down the track, we have another band meeting, and now the band doesnt exist. After 6 years it died due to apathy.

My advise, tell him your plans for the band and that hes on his last chance or 2. If he steps up, that rules. If he lets you down, kick his ass to the curb.

Also, start befriending other drummers.......