Murdering My Rg250dx

[Narcissism]

in 2000, i bought my RG250DX. Since then, i've scalloped the fretboard, scraped and refinished it with a new coat of polyurethane, swapped the original HSH pickups for a Duncan JB and a Hotrails in the middle position, then swapped again for EMG 81/89 combination, leaving the single coil area filled with foam from the pickup box, and then i swapped out the old Ibanez Double Locking Trem for an OFR.

Before i bought the OFR, i came here and made sure it would fit in my guitar. I looked at the floyd measurement thread. Sure enough, there was a floyd out there that had the same measurements as my cavity, however there were lots of posts saying it would not fit in an RG. Well, i bought it anyway because i had a few hundred burning a hole in my pocket. So i got it, ripped out the old trem, along with the posts and everything and threw the new one in there, only to figure out that the trem just bearly didn't fit. Ibanez trems have a bit of an angled back part... i don't know how to describe it, but its just a slightly different shape than an OFR. So the OFR crashed into the body whenever I wanted an action that was playable, or whenever i wanted to do a reverse dive. So i just shoved it in there, blocked it, and said "yay."

That was 2 years ago. Today i got some tools out and routed out the trem cavity so it would fit the OFR. Through this process, i learned something:

Basswood SUCKS. The trem posts were leaning so much that i had to fill the bushing holes with dowils, redrill them, fill the holes with epoxy to strengthen them and then redrill through the epoxy so i could put in the trem posts. Then i chipped away the corners where the floyd was crashing into the body using an exact-o blade (it cut like clay). Then i covered the exposed wood in the only paint that i had which was automotive jet black.

So now i have a white guitar with what looks like a black burnhole where the gold OFR is placed... And the trem posts are leaning again. I think i'm ready to chuck this body and make a new one. The neck was scalloped improperly as well, and i ended up scraping the frets up a little bit, so it'll give me some refretting practice as well, though i think it'll be pretty difficult with scalloped frets... in which case it'll give me an excuse to build a neck...

Basically, the end result will be a lot of practice and hopefully a new guitar with the hardware that's currently in the RG250DX. On the bright side, this guitar feels a lot more playable now that i've spent the time setting it up properly. I've never intonated an OFR before, so doing that feels pretty good.

Hopefully something good will come out of this. I'll be using this thread as an update space for this project with pictures.

-Narcissism

[RestorationAD]

Firewood. Now you can build your dream guitar and salvage the parts.... I hate parts laying around with no home.

Ok so I know it is really too late to help on the leaning posts but I have a trick for Basswood.

If you wick CA into the Basswood it gets hard as a rock. I used this trick on my Poplar Charvel and all my RG's I have modified. You can fix neck pocket issues with this trick too. Look forward to seeing your build .

[djhollowman]

Also regarding the leaning FR posts:

I'm not surprised to hear they're leaning after fixing with epoxy - exactly the same happened to me.

I've just posted how I fixed mine in this thread.

I too seriously considered a total body remake. In fact, I might even do it yet, sometime in the future.

A good neck is always worth saving IMHO. Saying that, I've never tried refretting a scalloped neck....

Lots of good stuff here though: as you say, it's all practice; reusable hardware; good times!!

Please post photos, including ones of how it looks now.

DJ

[Narcissism]

Today I started making a body. I'm using a material which is very foreign to me. I started making a KV shape out of MDF. I'm still calling it wood, but it is very different from wood to work with. For one thing, the circular saw just flies through it, and same with the jigsaw. However, sanding and planing is probably the biggest pain in the butt! while using the hand plane, it seems to get bumpier. While using very high grit sandpaper (50-60), it seems to make it smooth, but it doesn't seem to make any progress as far as getting closer to my original draw lines. I have about a milimer on every edge to compensate for any saw slips or gouges.

Also, when i initially had it, it was 3/4" thick. The plan was to cut the board in half the fat way, and then glue one half on top of the other and get a 1.5" thick guitar. The stuff is pretty heavy, so i figured this thickness will do OK with hardware included as far as weight goes.

So here we go:

This is my guitar.

You can see the new Schaller OFR that I installed, as well as the new pickups, and the beginners scalloping job. I used a chainsaw file, as it was the only round file I could find. Now I have better tools to do this kind of stuff with, like a Dremel!

You can also see in the picture, how the bottom trem post is leaning, and where the bridge is actually crashing into the pickguard. There's a few chips taken out of it.

Here you can see the corner of the bridge pocket that I modified. You can alsosee some of the black paint splatter.

[Narcissism]

So, here's the blueprints I figured out for a RR1 style, and a sort of improvised KV style that I came up with... It might actually be to exact specifications of a KV, because the RR1 style body uses a 45/45/90 triangle with a 25.5" Hypotenuse. I basically took a Roads and doubled it... I think... I really don't remember, because i drew it up while i was watching TV.

So I took the MDS 2x4' and cut it in half

Then I glued it together. As you can see, my redneck side is showing, as I had to be resourceful when it came to clamps. I only have two actual clamps in my tool closet.

The MDS really absorbs glue. I'm curious to see what it does with Polyurethane.

Anywho, here's the body cut out with some rough sanding and some work with the shaping done on the lower horn

One other thing I wanted to point out with the MDS, as far as sanding and planing goes, the resin holding the stuff together basically just lets go and causes all sawdust to be the same size particle whenever you try to sand it with any type of sandpaper below the grit of 120. I haven't tried anything higher yet, but we'll see.

Has anyone else had experience with MDS?

[Supernova9]

You're using MDF for the body?

You should have stuck with the old guitar. A cosmetically bad guitar made out of wood is better than a vaguely pretty guitar made out of MDF.

[al heeley]

Not known for its rich tone or handsome grain, MDF is normally used strictly for making templates and dolls houses.

[crafty]

:popcorn:

[Narcissism]

*shrugs* I think its worth the 10 dollars I spent on it, lol. If I really have a problem with it, then i'll use this as practice and then i'll go buy some actual wood. This is an experiment in reply to "The Plywood Discussion Thread" by the way.

I'll be taking all the hardware off of the RG250DX and putting it in the MDF body. So in total, the amount of money i'll be spending on this is 10 dollars, and the worst i can get out of it is experience with my tools, experience finishing, and possibly a body for my poor guitar. I'm not too worried about tone, as I'm using EMGs, and I play metal.

I believe that "Erogodyne" basses are made out of MDF. They sound "OK."

Thanks for the feedback! Enjoy the show!

[westhemann]

MDF is heavier than plywood...plus you know that they are talking about the quality plywoods...

You will have nothing but trouble with an MDF build....at least do yourself a favor and get some birch plywood if nothing else...

'm not too worried about tone, as I'm using EMGs, and I play metal.

Please don't say this...if you are going to say something at least be accurate and admit you are not able to properly hear tone.I wager I have been playing metal with guitars equipped with EMG longer than you...and I and everyone else can easily tell the tonal variences in all of my guitars because of the woods used.

[Narcissism]

Its true, i could be tone deaf. Hell, I couldn't tune a drumset to save my life. I do know a good sound when I hear it though... Getting that sound to come out of any amp that I play with is another thing. However, i'm stubborn, and I'm going to complete this!

That birch plywood was pretty tempting, though. I'll probably end up doing that later on in this thread.

[j. pierce]

My major concern is those trem studs again - I have suspicions that MDF isn't going to hold those studs much better than the basswood, and you'll have those leaning again shortly.

[djhollowman]

My major concern is those trem studs again - I have suspicions that MDF isn't going to hold those studs much better than the basswood, and you'll have those leaning again shortly.

Yeah, I'd have to agree. If you must persist with the MDF you should at least use one of these for extra strength:

DJ

[Narcissism]

Its funny you mentioned the trem stabilization thinger you showed in the picture there. I just found the old one from my old trem, so that should help a lot. The test I did for all the plywoods i was choosing from was the fingernail test. If i can dig my fingernail into it, then It should be strong enough, right? I don't think I'm right anymore with this MDF stuff, but it seemed like the thing to do at the time. I may just abandon this all together and go for the birch... or actual solid wood... but at the same time, i would like to use this as a test piece, as it is all the right dimensions, and I just got a bunch of new router bits for Christmas that I'm itching to try out.

I'm going to continue for now, even though everyone is telling me not to lol, because I am curious, and I can't seem to find any sound clips from MDF guitars that other people have built.

Maple, Mahogany, Oak, Birch and Poplar are my next choices. I'm probably not gonna go for poplar though.

[SwedishLuthier]

To throw a bit of gasoline on the "MDF used in guitars" debate:

Over at the telecaster forum there were a guy posting a soundclip from his newly finished Tele with this "secret body tone wood" and he asked people to guess what wood it was. The sound got raving revues and every tonewood imaginable were mentioned until he revealed the truth: MDF. It was a pretty normal Telecaster sound judging from the sound clips. It could have fooled me.It did...

Here it is:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-disc...sound-clip.html

It has sustain for days.

One more MDF Tele:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot...ster-build.html

and another:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-disc...tml#post1000976

You are not alone...

[al heeley]

Martin launched a new range of 'eco-friendly' acoustics last year using resin-bonded wood particle laminates to mimic the feel and tone of real wood, but I'm sure it wasn't DIY-grade MDF they used. Martin have such a massive reputation and history to protect, its a bold move but they seem to be biasing the marketing on the eco-angle and of course the lower price bracket. As far as i've read, they are very decent sounding (and feeling) guitars. Not had the chance to play one in person yet.

[Narcissism]

To throw a bit of gasoline on the "MDF used in guitars" debate:

Over at the telecaster forum there were a guy posting a soundclip from his newly finished Tele with this "secret body tone wood" and he asked people to guess what wood it was. The sound got raving revues and every tonewood imaginable were mentioned until he revealed the truth: MDF. It was a pretty normal Telecaster sound judging from the sound clips. It could have fooled me.It did...

That makes me feel a lot better!

I'm going to change my opinion on the EMGs, and say I'm not Tone Deaf. I'm mearly following what I've read and I accidently repeated it without figuring anything out for myself. We've all done it... And drums are very different from guitars... Things that go "meedilymeedilymeedily" sound different compared to things that go "bang, boom, crash"

I've routed out the control cavity and the pickup cavity. I'm not too sure how i'm going to do the 3way blade hole though... maybe I can replace it with a 3way switch...

HMMMMMMM

I'm trying to avoid using a pickguard.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Narcissism

[eddiewarlock]

I too thought that EMG's made all guitars sound the same, from what i had read on forums, well all i can say it's a BIG lie.

I have several guitars fitted with EMG's and they all sound different.

I think it's tone deaf people who say they all sound the same.

[anderekel]

As far as the EMG thing, I think it's not only people who can't hear tone, but also people who just don't like metal, therefore wouldn't care to hear a difference and wouldn't.

[Narcissism]

I've only had one guitar with EMGs in it. Every other guitar I've heard/had has had Duncans or something else. But based on that, I am retracting my opinion on EMGs sounding the same in every guitar, as I simply don't know because I've never heard another guitar with EMGs in it... besides on a Metallica record or Black Label Society... etc.

I got some more work done with the router today. I have a feeling that the MDF is going to basically be a poly-U sponge when i'm done with it. It'll be nice and rubbery by the time I get it shiny at least! I'm guessing it'll probably have the density/feel of a skateboard wheel.

[crafty]

To throw a bit of gasoline on the "MDF used in guitars" debate:

Over at the telecaster forum there were a guy posting a soundclip from his newly finished Tele with this "secret body tone wood" and he asked people to guess what wood it was. The sound got raving revues and every tonewood imaginable were mentioned until he revealed the truth: MDF. It was a pretty normal Telecaster sound judging from the sound clips. It could have fooled me.It did...

Here it is:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-disc...sound-clip.html

It has sustain for days.

One more MDF Tele:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot...ster-build.html

and another:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-disc...tml#post1000976

You are not alone...

I wouldn't say he got "rave" reviews. People were impressed by the sustain, but almost everyone agreed that there was an extreme lack of TONE. I thought the sound clip sounded terrible, but with an MDF body, cheap pickup, and a POD used to record the clip, my expectations weren't very high anyway.

MDF is good for practice and template making, but I'd never use it on a guitar that I was going to gig or record with.

[Narcissism]

Thought I'd update:

I did a little more routing on the MDF body. I'm only doing as much as I can as long as the weather permits. This weekend would have been good, but I had a show to go to, which took priority. So now i'm back in VT, and its 2F out. Figures lol.

I've decided to go with a Schaller 456 instead of the OFR. The one I have is messed up beyond repair, and i'd rather have something nice and professional without any dings in it from stage abuse. This new bridge looks pretty sweet. Its basically a TOM with fine tuners, so it should play well with the locking nut. I'll be getting the black one.

In the off chance that those happen to not be fine tuners, than I'm going to just pop the bolts off the nut and call it a bridge. I'll build a neck one of these years lol.

[Prostheta]

I too thought that EMG's made all guitars sound the same, from what i had read on forums, well all i can say it's a BIG lie.

I have several guitars fitted with EMG's and they all sound different.

I think it's tone deaf people who say they all sound the same.

EMGs are fine unless you really lay into strings or play music with fine nuance, when the compression pulls out your dynamics. To be fair, a lot of this is due to the reputations of the 85 and 81, whereas I very much disagree on this tack when it comes to the qualities of the 60 and the S/SA/SV models.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Prostheta
i can't spell "into"

[Keegan]

I too thought that EMG's made all guitars sound the same, from what i had read on forums, well all i can say it's a BIG lie.

I have several guitars fitted with EMG's and they all sound different.

I think it's tone deaf people who say they all sound the same.

EMGs are fine unless you really lay into strings or play music with fine nuance, when the compression pulls out your dynamics. To be fair, a lot of this is due to the reputations of the 85 and 81, whereas I very much disagree on this tack when it comes to the qualities of the 60 and the S/SA/SV models.

EMGs are great if you're recording digitally since they give the computer a really "clean" signal and without any noise. Their lesser known models are the best, the 60 for clean, and the 58 for dirty blues/alt rock/metal stuff(it's really p90ish sounding, but with tons more gain). They're also great if you want your sound to be consistent and predictable.

EMGs suck if you play live and with a lot of dynamics, or if you crave a really warm sound(ie without so many overtones) because the preamp levels the playing field a bit and brings out way more harmonics than your average passive pups.

Personally, I prefer active systems for playing clean(because each note is so defined) or with lots of effects into an amp that doesn't like being overdriven(solid state), but passive pups kick ass into a tube amp with the volume cranked.

But there's yet another alternative: passive pups into a preamp. Oh boy, the cleans are soo clean, and the dirty makes the pickups you thought were already wild into fire-breathing demons. The trade-off is that you get extra noise, since the preamp comes after miles of wire, but it's still managable compared to the signal level, especially if your guitar is well shielded.