bob123 Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 If so, where can I find them, if not, WHY NOT? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 This is a very obvious answer if you think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted October 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Im missing the obvious then lol. I would pay more for a pot i could firmly attach that had a prong for grounding the top easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Okay I am now of the opinion that Bob makes these questions up as an attempt at some sort of humor.Nobody(and I mean nobody) can have every single question they ask be so ...."Bob". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 I think it's that constant writing of "lol" after every sentence. Seriously though, knock it off. It makes you sound like a 12yo. Edit: actually I won't write that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted October 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) OK fine. Explain to me whats so "bob" about this one. 1) Instead of spending time scratch the top of a pot, you can simply attach it to the lug that would already be there. Not only will it save time, it will give better contact and be less likely to pull away over time. 2) An extension would allow you to screw the pot to the wood, keeping it still for the life of the screw. OBVIOUSLY this isn't going on a strat pickguard gentlemen, but think of guitars with solid wood tops. 3) The cost increase of this would almost be negligable. Even if I needed to spend an extra dollar, it would be a prudent investment as far as Im concerned. 4) I say "lol" to lighten the mood. If thats a problem, so be it. Striking through a comment is about as mature as a "12 year old" as you imply. A pm would be more prudent for that crap. 5) Instead of bantering around, how about we answer the question instead of giving vague, ambiguous, and rude comments. Isn't that against the rules? Edited October 18, 2013 by bob123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Lighten up bob123. Dear me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted October 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Ive never seen or heard of these being used. Worth berating me publicly? If my idea was so dumb, why do these exist? Thanks for your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted October 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) I can see how its used. Its a fancy lock washer. Still doesn't have a ground lug. Was hoping something like this was existing in a dark corner applicable for guitar wiring. Edited October 18, 2013 by bob123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 It may be time to stop looking for problems where they don't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 To answer your second question first, it is down to the application of small power potentiometers. They specifically have metal or insulated cases for a reason; so they are in (or not in) electrical connection with a grounded metal chassis/sub-chassis. There is no use for specifically having a solder tag on the case of small components since it would inflate component cost across all of the tagged components and after all, the engineered design dictates that a component will serve its specific purpose precisely and as simply as possible. Components do what they need to do. A solder tag would be both a mere convenience to satisfy a lazy user and - from an engineering standpoint - a superfluous and potentially problem-causing addition hence why it is highly unlikely that they exist. High current components like Variacs specifically have earthing locations because merely mounting them in electrical connection with an earthed plane is not best practice so they require dedicated and specific earthing locations. They need them for a reason. The answer to your first question is in the answer to the second. Also this. https://www.cbgitty.com/cubecart/images/source/Electronics/50-049-01_Product_Image_2.JPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted October 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 (edited) I can appreciate that answer, I just find it odd that all these manufacturers for mass produced guitars haven't found a way to do this yet. It's not laziness, its "working smarter, not harder". Im pretty damn good at soldering, and sometimes it takes me 5 minutes to get a good solder joint on the back of the pot. Sanding it back to fresh aluminum, scuffing it to promote adhesion, etc... sometimes its just a PITA to get it on there.... where as a simple terminal on the top would make that become a 2 second job. It also would almost entirely prevent cold joints on the top, because you could physically attach the wire, not just glue it to the top. I did the math, and yeah its not really worth it industrial scale, so I can see that it wouldn't be a mass produced thing, however, there are some niche products out there, and I was hoping someone would know if this existed. Good call on the tabbed pots, I totally forgot those exist. Usually I wind up buying those on accident when Im using it on a strat and have to clip them off. Edited October 20, 2013 by bob123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 m pretty damn good at soldering, and sometimes it takes me 5 minutes to get a good solder joint on the back of the pot. Tin it first.And clean your tip.And tin the tip.Only takes me 5 seconds or so and I don't do anything special except locate the ground near the edge of the pot because it takes heat better. Seriously...tin it...anyone "pretty damn good" at soldering would not be having this conversation.Soldering larger parts like on a guitar is not the same as soldering the tiny points on a board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwedishLuthier Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 I sugest using a variable temp soldering iron. I run mine at aprox 320 deg C for soldering most wires, and jumps up to over 400 for soldering to the back of the post. No problems anymore. Just need to remember to step down before soldering wires again ad the insulation has a habit of being destroyed when using such high settings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAvenger Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Tin it first.And clean your tip.And tin the tip. +1 Tin everything. Always tin everything. I use an inexpensive soldering gun for everything from smt parts to tinning a pot. I can't say I have ever had an issue with it. Also, specifically about soldering to the back of a pot, remember most cases are aluminum, which are great conductors of heat. It may help to concentrate on a small area to solder to as larger area means larger heat transfer which in turn can causes problems. Simply scuff the surface, clean and tin the iron, tin the pot, clean and re-tin the iron, tin the wire, clean and re-tin the iron, and solder together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripthorn Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 A lot of the niche guitar suppliers simply use something cheap and readily available as a basis. The only "custom" pot manufacturer I know of is Allessandro, but those are like $50 a piece, so I would personally rather spend the extra couple of seconds to heat up the pot back and save about $100 per guitar. Sure they could bring the price down if they sold more, but those little ground terminal things posted earlier do the trick rather well as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 It seems that even boutique parts like Alessandro don't use solder tags on the casing. Another case of wheel going into a wheel-shaped hole. Bob123 no inventy-new wheely today. Then again, who knows what will emerge out of weird old stock. All kinds of nonsensical things going on with old pre-sense period parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Guys, ive been soldering guitars since i was 12 years old. I have a weller soldering station, i know all the tricks. Some times its a pain to get the solder to stick to the top, ergo difficult to tin it. I have no idea why its a pain sometimes, but it happens. Swede, thats pretry much exactly how i do it. I usually strip out more wire then i need, tin it, then cut it length. That or i wrap it around the post to get a solid mechanical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 (edited) Solder not taking to the tip of the iron either means the iron isn't getting hot enough, or (more likely) the tip is so worn and dirty that it can't be tinned anymore. Iron tips are designed to wear and be replaced, might be due to fit a new one. A clean tip will help the transfer of heat to the pot shell via the layer of solder that is applied to the tip, and establish a good solder joint. Check also that you're not using a tip that is too small or the wrong shape to allow such large solder joints to be made. This may be telling you how to suck eggs, in which case I apologise in advance, but the correct method of soldering two surfaces together is to use the iron to heat up the area to be soldered, applying the solder to the area and letting the heated surface melt the solder. Using the iron to transfer a heated "blob" of solder to the target surfaces is asking for dry, weak joints. The technique should work for everything, whether it be an 8-pin chip on a circuit board or fitting elbow joints to copper water pipes. Setting up a grounding point on the pot shell will also be easier if you do first thing before it's even fitted to the guitar. Once you have the solder "pad" on the back of the pot shell done, every successive remelting of it for the attaching of wires will be easier. I find that it's easier to make the ground point on the pot in the side of the shell, rather than smack in the middle - less area to heat up makes it easier to establish a clean joint. The ring lugs that Prostheta posted a picture of is the only dedicated method I know of for attaching a wire to a pot or switch body, and probably more fiddly than it's worth. The iron I use is a basic 25W plug-and-go, fixed temperature unit. Provided the surface of the pot shell if prepped correctly I can solder a wire to it using this iron in about 10 seconds. The only thing it struggles with is the grounding wire that attaches to a trem spring claw, in which case I switch to a butane iron (the only thing I currently have that gets/stays hot enough). A Weller soldering station should have more than enough grunt to see you through just about anything you can throw at it. Edited October 22, 2013 by curtisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Sorry, I realise now I've misread your last comment about getting the "solder to stick to the top" as "sticking to the tip", assuming you meant you were having trouble getting the iron to heat properly in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob123 Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Its ok. Appreciate you taking the time to offer advice. I use a weller soldering station, and I crank the heat up for most pot solders, the only time I turn it down at all usually is when Im wiring temp sensitive things (switch contacts, resistors, capacitors, etc), even then I use brass alligator clips as a heat sink. I've been dabbling on the idea of making grounding terminals out of copper, and attaching those directly inside the control cavity. That way installation can be streamlined and much cleaner perhaps. I will try it out on my current build, and let you guys know how it goes. The pot terminal would be cool, but I guess not worth the headache from a manufacturing point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted October 24, 2013 Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 i know its improper technique but here how i do it i solder a small blob on the back of my pots then tin the leads then just lay your leads on the blob hold them in place with the iron and wait for it to melt to gather. it may not be the best but it hasnt given me any problems yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Ross Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 That's the proper way, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 Well i was taught to heat the parts and then feeding the solder to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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