2.5itim Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hello, my names Tim, I've been a long time looker and first time poster. I have wanted to build a guitar for quite a while and just haven't had the drive to do it. I had bought a board of mahogany and Purple Heart a few years ago and just never finished it or really ever started, I had planed it and that was about it, really hoping I can keep the drive this go around!! so I guess it started a couple months ago, I was looking around online and came across kraggs guitars and just fell in love, although I could never afford the price tag that comes with one I figured I could build something similar. This guitar will have a body similar to the 3 piece sandwiched style they use, i went to my local saw mill today and picked up 2 boards of walnut and 1 board of spalted hackberry, anyways here's the boards but I won't be able to show much more till I am able to get over to my shop to straight edge/plane and glue the body together. Thanks for looking!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hi Tim! The wood you've got on hand should be very good for working if it was stored correctly. Nothing like wood that has been left to be, air drying :-) Sandwiched bodies are very cool, especially once they start being carved to reveal the layers or any pinstriping. This will be a really enjoyable experience for you. Is the spalted wood going on top? Depending on how "far gone" it is, it might be somewhat soft in places, so you'll need to consider stabilising it if that is the case. No direct experience on Hackberry, however I think that @westhemann has/had a load? I will say from the outset though, that laminating a body blank requires a LOT of clamps, good glue application practice and surface prep. I've run the numbers a few times with people and they can't believe that you have to apply several tons of pressure over the entire surface area to get an ideal clamping pressure! Depending on the woods and grain orientation, clamping pressure per square inch for a joint should be around 150-250PSI for standard PVAc or modified aliphatics like Titebond I. The average area of a 19" x 14" guitar body blank is 266in² requiring at least 20tons of pressure. Ideally, if it were a joint. That figure can be reduced significantly the better the mating faces are and the fact this is not a joint. Still, a big f-clamp can develop 500PSI on its own so you get the idea. At least ten, ideally twenty or thereabouts, using cauls to distribute pressure more evenly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a2k Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Awesome! That wood needs to be turned into a guitar. It is your obligation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Prostheta, thanks for all that! Like I said I this is my first go around so I can definitely use all the advice you'd like to give haha. As far as the spalted hackberry it probably wasn't the best choice to go with because it's definitely got some flaws, there's quite a few cracks, knots and rotten places but I believe I have enough here that I can find more than enough to do what I need to do. I've bought some of this from him before so I knew what to expect, I've used it as shelves mainly but once it's planed and finished it just looks so great so I had to give it a go, this is how I'm planning the body although it will be a single cut, hoping for something along the lines of a ibanez fr body shape. 3/4" thick back 5 piece laminate (walnut/hackberry/walnut/hackberry/walnut), 1/2" thick hackberry for the middle, 1/4" walnut for the top then carved almost exactly like the knaggs guitar that I will post a pic of minus the upper horn area, I will keep all of the walnut top in that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Prostheta, in regards to what you were saying about clamping force, would that amount of pressure be needed for both the laminating of the back 5 pieces as well as the top, middle and back pieces being glued together? im trying to figure out in my head how I'm going to clamp all of this together, I have some regular ole 24" clamps that I was going to use to laminate the back together but I don't think I could get anywhere near that pressure with them. Sooo... I guess I'm thinking I have 2 options, I could go buy some all-thread cut up some 2x4 pieces glue up some steal to the back of the 2x4 drill holes in that and stick the all thread thru then weld on some bolt heads so I could hit it with an impact to pull them together or, use the hydraulic press I have at work to push the pieces together, only problem I could see having here is the press only applying pressure in the middle and not to the ends. any help here would be appreciated seeing as how I was just gonna glue them up and get my clamps as tight as I could then call it good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 A 5-piece laminate body is a brave venture. Whilst you don't strictly need to develop that amount of clamping pressure, it is desirable to reduce glue lines. Most of the work is done when you're surfacing the mating faces. The better they are, the most you can get away with less clamping pressure, to a point. How strong is the hydraulic press? If you can make some cauls (plywood works well) then pressure can be distributed more evenly. I guess that the clamp applies pressure along a long thin area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 The press is 10 tons but I got to thinking about it and it has a lot of bleed out so it wouldn't work out, there's no way I could stand there for 24 hours pushing the pedal down every 10 minutes lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 20-30mins is fine as long as the boards are well-fitting and aren't cupping out from each other. That is, if you're using standard adhesives such as Titebond 1, or any other PVAc/modified aliphatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted January 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Man in that case that will work perfect!! Thank you for all of your help so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I do have a lot of hackberry around,but I haven't set any aside for a guitar.I did set up a ton of elm. Anything will make a body if it's dried.Basswood is quite successful and it's softer than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted January 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 I agree westheman, I think it'll be fine. It's been drying for 2 years according to the date he had on it. I think it'll turn out looking and sounding good at the same time. I had a little free time this evening and decided to start on my body template, lesson learned never use 1/2" birch plywood for a template. I had it here laying around so figured I'd use it, it just splinted way to bad and with finish sanding my finger caught an edge quite a few times. But anyways here it is, I'm happy with it! I ended up just tracing my ibanez s body, erasing the whole upper horn and free handing the new one for the single cut body shape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 wow, it has been a long day!! this stuff is really rewarding and I could definitely see my self getting hooked. Prostheta, you were so right! A 5 piece laminate was a very brave venture but I think that it worked out well, I couldn't get the table saw to cut a good 90 degree angle to save my life. The 5 piece laminate back ended up being a little catiwampus when clamped together so what I ended up doing was glueing/clamping the 3 smaller pieces to one of the wider walnut pieces then ran it thru the planer and made it flat again, this worked perfectly until I clamped the last wide piece of walnut to the rest, then it ended up to wide for the planer. It didn't end up completely flat so I took my buddies weird little card planer that I had never seen before and got it close. It's still not perfect but when all 3 layers are clamped together I don't think it'll be noticeable! Anyways on to the pics top that I still need to glue together middle back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) I'm having a really hard time deciding on what woods to buy for the neck and fret board, what type of woods do y'all think would tie in with the walnut/hackberry body combo? Maybe just a Birdseye maple/walnut laminate neck with a Birdseye maple fretboard? id really appreciate some opinions if you have them!! Edited January 25, 2016 by 2.5itim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Well since nobody chimed in, I took a trip to the local woodcraft to see what they had available. I ended up picking up a piece of ambrosia maple and I really like it!! It has some really cool looking patterns in it. I went ahead and bought the whole board since it was pretty well priced so I'll be able to get 3 necks out of it, 2 pieces with some really good looking patterns in it and one that won't have much at all, I'll use the piece that I cut already for this guitar and another for my tele. as for the body I got the back laminated walnut piece and the hackberry piece glued up. The hackberry bowed on me a bit and most of it glued flat so I just took my hand planer and got the rest flat. The top 1/4" pieces of walnut also warped on me pretty bad! I got a pot of water boiling and let them steam for about 10 minutes then put pressure on them for 24 hours, they are perfectly straight now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Nice idea and amusing too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 On 1/25/2016 at 10:42 PM, 2.5itim said: I'm having a really hard time deciding on what woods to buy for the neck and fret board, what type of woods do y'all think would tie in with the walnut/hackberry body combo? Maybe just a Birdseye maple/walnut laminate neck with a Birdseye maple fretboard? id really appreciate some opinions if you have them!! Again, zero knowledge of Hackberry. Maple and Walnut would would fine, especially with a birdseye board! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 So... Scarf joints really freaking suck!!! I cut up 3 pieces of this board last night and planed them. I'm gonna go ahead and make 3 necks, one for practice, one for this build and one for me tele, I got them planed to thickness and did the scarf joint on the extra neck. Before doing the other 2 necks I need to find a better way to do them(if anyone wants to throw out advice here please do!!). I used my Japanese saw and drew out a 12 degree angle, my saw decided to cut a 15 degree way crooked angle. So after hours of block sanding it was close enough to glue up, I'll need to do a little more sanding on the top after I unclamp it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 45 minutes ago, 2.5itim said: Before doing the other 2 necks I need to find a better way to do them(if anyone wants to throw out advice here please do!!). If you are going to be doing it with a hand saw, check out the jig Muzz made in his Cherry Bomb build. There are quite a few clever jigs and work aids scattered throughout that thread. You may have to go to a longer bladed saw though. It would be a good idea anyway, the blades on Japanese saws are intentionally very flexible. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) Thank you for that Scott! I just looked that over and it looks like exactly what I need and I do agree, I don't think the Japanese saw was a good idea because it's extremely flimsy Time for me to go buy some dowel rods and do some trig. Edited January 28, 2016 by 2.5itim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5itim Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Do you think a bandsaw would be a better idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtisa Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Bandsaw would make keeping the cut straight much easier, but you'd still have to spend some time cleaning and squaring up the cut with a hand plane and sanding. Given that you have to spend time finessing the gluing surfaces for either method, it pays to weigh up how much of a difference in effort it is first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Your best bet would be making a jig. Slight angles can become inaccurate. One of my upcoming tutorial projects is a neck scarfing router jig. A few people here have made them, and they're not uncommon generally. It's basically that, plus a wide base added to the router which rides across the angled edges. You can cut your stock roughly and clean it up accurately using the jig. To cut the angle in the jig sides, use basic trigonometry or Google "triangle calculator" for the values. You then only need to have to measure the distances from one corner to the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 The tutorial I'll be doing will be a bit more complex, with workholding and scope for twisted headstock scarfs for compound scale instruments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pizza Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 nice Project and great looking wood! Curious how that neck is going to look when finished! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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