djhollowman Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 (edited) Hey all! Well, t'other day a mate of mine asked if I'd be interested in this: Once I had stopped laughing, he explained how he'd "had a go at refretting it" but that it "might need some crowning just to finish it off". (Those of you with a nervous disposition should look away now.....) pic 2 These photos don't even do it justice! pic 3 Oh, and he'd also stripped one of the saddle screws when trying to re-fit the strings! However, I noticed something a little more serious: pic 4 Notice the stud angle??? Anyway, needless to say I ended up getting it for a couple of bucks or so, cos I thought "Why not trim it up as a keeper?" I can't sell it afterall - who would buy that?? I am a huge Vai fan!!! NOTE: If you intend to flame me about anything Chibanez-related please start a new thread and don't hijack this one, thanks! For the record: my friend knew what he was buying; as did I; it's already worthless in it's present state(except maybe as parts..and even then I dunno!); it will not be sold as a real Ibanez; I hate people trying to pass off fakes as much as the next guy; I want it for technique practice! [Right, down off soapbox again!] So, here's the plan: Pull trem bushes, drill out holes and glue in new wood, re-drill bush holes (that should fix the studs problem) Pull frets, fill inlay gaps etc, sand fingerboard, re-fret properly! Then to make it more JEM-y: cut back of monkey grip correctly, move jack socket, thin lower horn a bit, maybe neck heel should be smoother transition??? Pickguard doesn't look correctly shaped or finished either. I really want a guitar with a sustainer - this could be the baby! Maybe I should make a Flo copy!!?? Hmm... I'll make a player outta this thing yet!! Will update with more progress piccies at some point. DJ Edited September 6, 2008 by MexicanBreed Just a friendly reminder...one pic per post, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 Wow! Is that really how it was delivered from China? What a ripoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyonsdream Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 The inlay work and fretwork is bad but you are right that it will give you a lot to learn from. Fixing a messed up guitar is often harder than actually building one. Those Chinese rip offs are a plague on society but if you can take one and make a real player out of it then you will be an accomplished repair person for sure. One thing I would do is strip the logo off of it and come up with something creative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElysianGuitars Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 The inlay work and fretwork is bad but you are right that it will give you a lot to learn from. Fixing a messed up guitar is often harder than actually building one. Those Chinese rip offs are a plague on society but if you can take one and make a real player out of it then you will be an accomplished repair person for sure. One thing I would do is strip the logo off of it and come up with something creative. how about "Chibanez"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhollowman Posted September 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 Wow! Is that really how it was delivered from China? What a ripoff. Well, more or less, yeah. As I said, my mate pulled the original frets and put those in. I think they looked better initially, before he butchered them. But it's his attempt at levelling I'm amazed at! I mean, he's taken so much off that you'd never get a re-crown out of it, that's for sure! He's not even attempted crowning or dressing. But he's not interested in guitar repairwork as such, so it's not like he's trying to build up a reputation or anything. Fair enough I guess. I think the bridge posts would have moved like that after a few hours of play TBH. There's wear on the trem knife-edge too. It's a casting obviously. The inlaywork would have been like that from "new" I think. It was probably worsened by the fret-pulling though. The inlay work and fretwork is bad but you are right that it will give you a lot to learn from. Fixing a messed up guitar is often harder than actually building one. Those Chinese rip offs are a plague on society but if you can take one and make a real player out of it then you will be an accomplished repair person for sure. One thing I would do is strip the logo off of it and come up with something creative. +1 to all that man! That's the plan anyway, to make it semi-decent! Yeah, I'm deffo viewing it as an experiment/learning process. When he showed me it, I had zero interest in it, but then the lightbulb went on over my head, and I thought "Hmm...wait a minute...I could do this, and I could do that...etc" so why not?? The inlay work and fretwork is bad but you are right that it will give you a lot to learn from. Fixing a messed up guitar is often harder than actually building one. Those Chinese rip offs are a plague on society but if you can take one and make a real player out of it then you will be an accomplished repair person for sure. One thing I would do is strip the logo off of it and come up with something creative. how about "Chibanez"? Yeah, I wondered about that one too! Keep 'em coming! Thanks for all your comments so far. DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaycee Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 Fixing a messed up guitar is often harder than actually building one. Where do you start ! Do the pickup's work? It's all experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhollowman Posted September 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 how about "Chibanez"? I quite like Vaibanez too! Where do you start ! Do the pickup's work? It's all experience Haha, yeah I know! I just can't get enough experience, just love it! I haven't tried the pickups yet TBH! Or any of the electrics, come to think of it. They probably do work, but even if they don't it's all do-able. I love the wiring part! Gonna try the tutorial on the main site to change the jack to a Jem-style, looks like fun! Might hunt down a white DiMarzio Evo [or Evo2] since I feel this axe is gonna cost me very little anyway. But, as I mentioned earlier, I've been kinda thinking about a guitar with a sustainer pickup anyway, so this may end up being a version of Steve's Flo Jem. That would mean the pickups being worth 10x the guitar, but so be it. I can always transplant it all into a better body at a later date. I can get it repainted for free; it's cost me almost nothing to buy; I already have all the requisite tools etc; it fulfills a project ambition I had anyway [big Vai fan!]; and above all: it will be FUN!!! It will owe me nothing once completed. It's just too good an opportunity to turn down - I would never have sought it out, but when it's suddenly presented to you it does make you think about it I guess. Actually, I can't wait to get started on 'er! So.... Anyone have a quick link to a bridge stud replacement tutorial? I have it figured in my head anyway, but some extra input would be welcome! DJ PS - no mention of turd polishing yet?? Hmm....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killemall8 Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 Honestly, i dont see one thing wrong with this guitar BESIDES the frets. looks pretty good t me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshvegas Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 how aboyt mybanez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted September 6, 2008 Report Share Posted September 6, 2008 Honestly, i dont see one thing wrong with this guitar BESIDES the frets. looks pretty good t me I'm in the same boat. JEMs aren't bad guitars. Not my cup of tea, but not bad besides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 I'm with them. The aesthetics aren't what's wrong with it, it's the craftsmanship. Re-fretting, fixing the stud, probably new pups and some other hardware.... I think there's more here that's salvageable than you realize. If the neck is straight, the body is solid, and the finish decent, this turd could be polished up nice. The good thing is that you won't have paid much for the turd to begin with. I kinda like Chibanez. Were it a Chinese strat, I might suggest Crapcaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 ' Ibeenhad ' needs to be the headstock logo. About that trem post : You might get by with less work, better resale value, and the same end results, by doing a coating of baking soda and super-glue in the wood hole, redrill with proper size drill bit, then press the bushing back in. If there's also the problem that the bushing itself has actually been made wider, from the stud rocking back and forth in it (making the thread match loose, etc), you can flip the bushing upside down to get a fit like when it was new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhollowman Posted September 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 The aesthetics aren't what's wrong with it, it's the craftsmanship. Re-fretting, fixing the stud, probably new pups and some other hardware.... I think there's more here that's salvageable than you realize. If the neck is straight, the body is solid, and the finish decent, this turd could be polished up nice. The good thing is that you won't have paid much for the turd to begin with. Yes, that's exactly the case here! The neck is surprisingly good - I've just gone over it again in detail and I'm very pleasantly surprised! Not the highest grade of maple by any means, but a perfectly servicable neck. Lovely and straight. You just know that the cost has been kept down by using realy cheap wood for the body (it's very light, maybe some kind of ply of different types??),Asian no-make parts, and replica castings of the bridge etc, but the real saving has, of course, been on the workers wages. That's your biggest overhead right there. It can all be remedied. About that trem post : You might get by with less work, better resale value, and the same end results, by doing a coating of baking soda and super-glue in the wood hole, redrill with proper size drill bit, then press the bushing back in. If there's also the problem that the bushing itself has actually been made wider, from the stud rocking back and forth in it (making the thread match loose, etc), you can flip the bushing upside down to get a fit like when it was new. Baking soda and super glue? Not familiar with this one yet! (I understand the rest of the procedure obviously) Ah, just done some internet research on this. So, do you feel a repair in this fashion would be strong enough to support the bushing during operation? (Bear in mind I'm a big Vai fan so I do plenty of serious whammy abuse!!) Thanks, DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 It should make the cheap wood as hard as any hardwood, so I think it's at least worth a shot. Basically what you can do is coat the walls of the hole with medium super-glue, then just pack the hole completely with baking soda (not baking powder). Might have a different name over there. Sodium bicarbonate or something like that ?. Then let it dry long enough, then knock as much of unglued baking soda out of the hole as possible. Then re-drill, etc. Actually, get a bushing out first and experiment in scrap wood first. I wouldn't do just any damaged wood hole like that (like a screw hole). But the bushings are a one time thing and they press in, instead of screw in, so it's a little different. from the way those frets look, I'm wondering if your buddy somehow has a Nerf arbor press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Well,I bought the Nerf arbor press for my guitar building needs after constantly kicking my standard one in the dark walking through the house...It is quite under-rated...the only thing better is my wiffle bandsaw... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshvegas Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 almost soapbar bicarbonate of soda! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmrentis Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 (edited) Well,I bought the Nerf arbor press for my guitar building needs after constantly kicking my standard one in the dark walking through the house...It is quite under-rated...the only thing better is my wiffle bandsaw... No joke those arbor presses will help you fit into a few sizes smaller shoe. Actually, you can take a tip from Soap here and use that Baking Soda to add some light near your arbor press to save on the doctors bills. Try using Mountain Dew for lighting the press. Though I must admit I've been on the market for a nerf arbor press. I already have the silly putty radius cauls, so I'm set soon as I find the press. J Edited September 8, 2008 by jmrentis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhollowman Posted September 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 Well,I bought the Nerf arbor press for my guitar building needs after constantly kicking my standard one in the dark walking through the house...It is quite under-rated...the only thing better is my wiffle bandsaw... No joke those arbor presses will help you fit into a few sizes smaller shoe. Actually, you can take a tip from Soap here and use that Baking Soda to add some light near your arbor press to save on the doctors bills. Try using Mountain Dew for lighting the press. Though I must admit I've been on the market for a nerf arbor press. I already have the silly putty radius cauls, so I'm set soon as I find the press. J Oh no, I might have to re-think my plan here I was just gonna tap the frets in with my glass hammer DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted September 8, 2008 Report Share Posted September 8, 2008 The aesthetics aren't what's wrong with it, it's the craftsmanship. Re-fretting, fixing the stud, probably new pups and some other hardware.... I think there's more here that's salvageable than you realize. If the neck is straight, the body is solid, and the finish decent, this turd could be polished up nice. The good thing is that you won't have paid much for the turd to begin with. Yes, that's exactly the case here! The neck is surprisingly good - I've just gone over it again in detail and I'm very pleasantly surprised! Not the highest grade of maple by any means, but a perfectly servicable neck. Lovely and straight. You just know that the cost has been kept down by using realy cheap wood for the body (it's very light, maybe some kind of ply of different types??),Asian no-make parts, and replica castings of the bridge etc, but the real saving has, of course, been on the workers wages. That's your biggest overhead right there. It can all be remedied. About that trem post : You might get by with less work, better resale value, and the same end results, by doing a coating of baking soda and super-glue in the wood hole, redrill with proper size drill bit, then press the bushing back in. If there's also the problem that the bushing itself has actually been made wider, from the stud rocking back and forth in it (making the thread match loose, etc), you can flip the bushing upside down to get a fit like when it was new. Baking soda and super glue? Not familiar with this one yet! (I understand the rest of the procedure obviously) Ah, just done some internet research on this. So, do you feel a repair in this fashion would be strong enough to support the bushing during operation? (Bear in mind I'm a big Vai fan so I do plenty of serious whammy abuse!!) Thanks, DJ I would consider getting real Ibanez posts and an Edge Trem. How much are you willing to spend on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 It is tricky to really tell what is going on here but the wood in these things, even the originals are pretty light bass wood and cant stand this abuse and the wood is likely to have been compressed. Replacing with a new set is not necessarily going to fix the problem or it reoccurring. You might want to consider drilling or routing out a channel and inserting hardwood then reinserting the posts straight. Another option is perhaps a steel support hidden in the trem cavity to lend support to the posts or something. Looks like a recoverable project but that fretting is a shocker! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Alot of trems offer a steel plate that sits under the trem screw,against the wood,and lends a bit of aid to the soft wood. Good chance that body is basswood.....very soft and undesireable... I was just gonna tap the frets in with my glass hammer That's no good....I traded my glass hammer in for a Hula brand...works much better,and there is no glare... Only problem is some friends had kids over and they kept trying to spin it around their waists...You can't keep a tool in good working order with kids around.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 You can't keep a tool in good working order with kids around.... Or a wife. But then I get to immitate Tim Allen. He said whenever his wife monkeyed around with his tools, she left them smelling like her. So he re-scented them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigM555 Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 That trem post looks like the issue with the original JEM555's. Mine was sent back for repairs 3 times under warranty because the soft basswood actually broke and split. When the guitar played properly I fell in love with it. After the warranty was done I finally took it to a reputable luthier (wasn't into doing it myself back then) and they routed out the basswood, dropped in an ebony block and remounted the trem. It's been rock solid ever since. Ebony might now be what you're looking for on a white guitar but maybe a good chunk of maple and some paint?? BigM555 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhollowman Posted September 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Yeah, the more replies I get about this, and the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of routing out a channel and gluing in a piece of hardwood! I'll router and sand the top surface flat again, then paint it to match - it'll be an invisible upgrade! Then I'll re-do the holes, and perhaps invest in some new bushes and posts, they're not expensive! Very interesting to hear that this happens on 555s too, BigM555. I've made some progress already - I've pulled most of the frets out. Plently of chipping along the slot edges however, no matter how carefully I pull the frets. They were glued in, and I did heat each one with a soldering iron as I removed them. I think it's recoverable, however. Reckon I'll need to spend some time gluing down the chipped bits before sanding the surface. The entire surface of the fingerboard could do with a "dress" with sandpaper to freshen it up, and to remove the marks the previous owner has made!! There's lots of dried superglue to get rid of. Then I'm going to neaten the whole thing up by filling in all the gaps around the inlay with rosewood dust and superglue. When sanded smooth again I think it should look much better! Then I'll be pressing in new frets, and not using glue. Should just leave the levelling, crowning and final dressing to do then. Also, I'll file the tang back on each fret, then fill the fret ends with the dust'n'glue mix to make it a lot more presentable (same as I did on my R7t) I've noticed another "solution opportunity": One of the screws which hold the string retainer bar has obviously sheared off at some point. Someone has left the broken screw end in the original hole, and just drilled a new hole right next to the original hole. I'm thinking to drill another small hole at the other side of the broken screw end (opposite the 2nd hole, so that the broken screw is in the centre), then pull it out with needlenosed pliers or similar??? The holes would then be filled again, a new hole drilled in the correct spot, and that would all be covered by the finish anyway. What do you guys think? I'll have progress photos of all of this up tomorrow. Thanks for your helpful comments thus far fellas - keep 'em coming! DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Just be wary of sanding too much on the F/B. I've read reports from some Korean necks & other things bought on eBay that have extensive inlay work. The inlay is usually VERY thin, and not fitted well. No, this is clearly not the same thing, but it IS a cheaply-made Chinese thing. They might have used that crappy thin inlay junk that the Korean dudes use. Who knows - my fears could be completely wrong, and I sincerely hope they are. Just be careful not to sand too much, just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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