WezV Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 you see, if i was in i would be building from parts i have available to me already.. so my out of pocket budget could easily be zero but i would probably be using material i have already ingeniously aquired.. for the last build off i spent maybe $30 on wood, the rest was reclaimed or brought dirt cheap - worth a lot more than the $30 i had payed for it EG: A LP is still a LP whether it's a flat studio model or a chambered, carved-top, f-hole, uber-bling edition. the debate we had with that was whether a DC would be allowed, which it was in the end.. also we let the shape be tweaked and ofset - erik's winning guitar is actually very different to a les paul in almost every way.. it was also the most ingeniours and creative and i think the only one finished on time. a very deserving winner although i have no wish to take part in a build off, especially one with limiting rules, i am seriosuly considering seeing what i can do with a corvus. I have to consider whether i would be able to sell it at the end and that means it needs to be built to a standard consistent with my other builds. that means i wont be able to skimp on hardware or parts like i could a build for myself, its a risk building something potentially bad so i would have to make it as good as possible - thats not about throwing money at it to try and win a competetion, its about making sure my guitars that go out into the world meet a certain standard. i already have to consder i would have to sell it for less just because its a corvus, and would be fine with that if i did do one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddW Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 No Steinberger tuners on ebay right now, I already checked Saddly, there seems to be so much disagreement on the rules, that I don't know how likely it is that it'll happen. Think we need a "show of hands"? I'm game with or without a budget if enough people are in to make it interesting. Dirge? Ormorg? Wez? Komodo? Bueller Bueller Beuller Editing to add: That makes perfect sense Wez. Tried to check out your website. Looking forward to seeing your work when the site's up and running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komodo Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I seriously considered it, but starting to think about hardware and starting a template — I looked at the photos again and decided 'NOPE'. I may do a headless something or other at some point, but not this one. I'm out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Looking forward to seeing your work when the site's up and running. thats another good reason for not taking part - i really must get the website sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the telecaster kid Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) How about a seven string? Is that within the rules? *Edit: It just hit me, the body shape is a perfect candidate for a ten string ala BC Rich Bich. Is that acceptable either? Edited March 11, 2009 by the telecaster kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 All these post and I look back...not one picture...perhaps it is time to remind people what we are talking about... 'nuff said really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the telecaster kid Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I really don't see why y'all are so snobby I think it's a cool shape. Not as cool as a telecaster, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 your right pete... time for some mock-ups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 your right pete... You have no idea how rarely I hear that...must be my "tone"... This is a bit silly....however... time for some mock-ups I have always thought this kind of thing to be a neat idea for participation. Unfortunately I seem to have trouble with the computer programs to do something "special" with graphics...but it would be cool if people could conceptualize their ideas in the "virtual world" without having to commit to necessarily building something... This is particularly true of something like this...it could be really instructive to the purpose of guitar design to address the flaws or make the best of a design like this. It would feed back into more conventional design processes...without having to literally put router to wood and live with the results. I like the design challenge and instinctively put pen to paper and come up with a few "ideas" to retain the idea. OrgMorgs comment of a distressed found material/object kind of guitar could be really interesting...so a primitive take on it. Finally seeing the "Crow" in the shape, that too could be brought out in the carving. I think it could be a really neat thing to play with the "plywood" thread concepts. Best though would be if people could play this game without having to actually build these things with some simple sketches. I am not sure if the corvus is a good idea, but perhaps we could set up 'challenges' to come up with redesigns of the strat style, single cut, metal or whatever kinds of things...if only to give an idea of how people are thinking and the trends and to explore what's possible and practical. Unfortunately, the ability to manipulate graphics might sway things a little much to get the ideas across. My sketches are pretty, well sketchy as they serve only really to conceptualize and aid the "minds eye"...I do tend to get the general proportions right though but what would be super cool is a set of "parts" in which to design around. pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I made the offer to mail out a tracing of the template I made. Just in case you missed it. Wez: What exactly are you thinking to do to it that would mean going over $200 in parts & wood (pups extra)? I thought I did a decent job of pulling out decent quality hardware from the catalog, just to show that it could be done on a budget and still have decent hardware. Is Gotoh below your normal quality standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 OrgMorgs comment of a distressed found material/object kind of guitar could be really interesting...so a primitive take on it. Finally seeing the "Crow" in the shape, that too could be brought out in the carving. I think it could be a really neat thing to play with the "plywood" thread concepts Actually, it was Westhemann's remark, I merely resembled it. I'm definitely having fun thinking about it, but don't know if I'll have the time to actually do anything. It really is an awful design, well deserving of such a tribute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) I made the offer to mail out a tracing of the template I made. That may influence me to participate. I have some hardware laying around, and a rather interesting take on the 'corvus' in mind...Although it depends on the final rules. I won't be using exotic wood, but there's no way i'm painting a guitar a solid color! Also, in my mind, another month would be very helpful. I'd prefer the build to be relaxed and fun rather than stressing over getting it finished. Edited March 12, 2009 by mattharris75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 To recap, what we have so far is: Corvus body shape I'm offering to mail out a tracing of my template $200 budget, not including pickups include the cost of what you have lying around June 31st deadline, judging to start July 1st So long as it fits within those constraints, anything goes. To date, Wez is the main opponent of a budget, but he has professional reasons. Komodo raised the next reasonable objection to the budget, but later bowed out. Nobody else who was interested to this point had an issue with the budget, so I'll take it as a sign that the budget is set. So far, here are the builders: all-in avengers63 / John Dirge For November ToddW The Telecaster Kid maybe Kenny WezV (not counting you out yet) PSW / Pete Orgmorg MattHarris75 Let's let this simmer for the rest of the week and see what else gets brought up. I might propose giving it until Friday evening, then finalize everything and get the show on the road. That's let those of us who can/need to work on it this weekend the opportunity to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattharris75 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Do we need to commit to this by this weekend? I'm definitely leaning towards participating. However, I'll be out of the country and away from the net for close to a week starting Friday. It's been too long since PG has had a build-off, even a failed one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Trying to scale up a pic, I'm coming up with about 10 1/4" width across the body? is that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 All these post and I look back...not one picture...perhaps it is time to remind people what we are talking about... 'nuff said really! I don't know the dimensions...although I have actually seen one...hahaha however, John seems to have taken his "shape" from a les paul template and if you look at the above picture, that wouldn't be far wrong...kind of an LP with the classy bits cut out of it. Do people see the "raven"...it took me a while...but then maybe I'm a little slow. I detect a bit more of a wider lower leg rest cut than an LP, and the lower rear is shaved a bit too. The supposed "problem with balance" is more to do with the placement of the strap point, in reality it would depend a lot in what it was made of...probably, except for they ugliness and pointlessness of the design, it would be ok sitting and maybe even standing. ... IF I were to contribute (and the only thing stopping me really is the insecurity of my rented house and I'd hate to think this was the last guitar I made) I'd be going "cheap" but not necessarily 'nasty'. Perhaps an unorthodox 'shape' like this could take treatments and alternative approaches that a more conventional thing wouldn't allow. I'd suggest there are a number of ways that this 'competition' could be approached and kudos given to keeping costs down, ease of construction, tweaks or aesthetic treatments...besides the wood porn approach (which would be equally valid). If approached correctly, it could be instructive to see a number of approaches. For me, I just need to weigh up the personal situation and if I can really embark on this kind of thing just now. I may enter virtually with some "ideas" of how I could see an approach to it, and I think that may be something to aid in the "build off process" if conceptual ideas were considered (perhaps in a different category) it might make things a little more interesting and open it up to far more participation...and maybe a bit more fun! I think this could be achieved with anything from photoshoped realizations to sketches on paper scanned into the computer. anyway just a few thoughts, but not recanting on the ugliness and pointlessness of the object...but as an intellectual fantasy, I guess there is less harm done...and kind of appropriate as the only known player is Jack Corvus of GH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Wez: What exactly are you thinking to do to it that would mean going over $200 in parts & wood (pups extra)? I thought I did a decent job of pulling out decent quality hardware from the catalog, just to show that it could be done on a budget and still have decent hardware. Is Gotoh below your normal quality standard? i just worked out what a corvus replica would cost me to build (not what i would actually spend by the way, just the value of the parts i would use according to stew-mac, allparts UK and luthiers supplies)- i have no problem with gotoh hardware by the way and this isnt me being stuck up. alder body £40.00 maple neck AA grade £20.00 rosewood fretboard AA grade £10.00 Truss rod £9.20 CF bars £21.00 Bone nut £3.50 fretwire £9.00 inlays £5.00 binding £6.00 500k CTS pot x2 £10.00 sprague orange drop cap £5.00 jack socket £2.50 black scratchplate material £10.00 various other bits and bobs £10.00 pickup £100.00 adjustable wraparound bridge £30.00 sperzel trimlocks £55.00 finish £150.00 £496.20 now i can knock all that down to about £198.20 by not including the pickup (following the rules) and going with an oil finish (breaking the rules), also going with a maple fretboard, no inlays or binding and a single control and no CF bars ( dont really want to get rid of them) so today we have a figure of $684.87 for the replica with everything included - or $273.42 for a stripped down basic version still built to a high standard not including the pickup. i havnt worked out what a headless one would cost as i would need to consider exactly how i want to build it i also havnt worked it out based on actual prices payed or any discounts i receive as that would be an unfair advantage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 i am sure i forgot some bits neck bolts and ferrules for a start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge for november Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I'm still in, and definetly for a budget! Though without I'd still participate (with an as cheap as possible build) I guess in case of emergency I can always drop out? As for Wez's calculation. That would still make for quite a guitar, how about that finish... You could use carpaint rattle cans. would save you a heck of a lot. As for mockups, I still have to start sketching but I'll start my topic and describe the stuff I want to put in. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge for november Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Avenger, I would love that template, but only if it's not to much trouble. If i saw correctly it's about the size of an lP, is this correct? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddW Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Avenger, are you going to e-mail that template so we can print it out, or were you going to actually snail mail it, which seems like too much work for you. I can wing it if that was your plan. Thanks, Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Scrap plywood, pine or MDF...no charge...pawn shop strat with all parts including pickups...$50... Total cost...um...$50 and if you can't live with it, you can always put the strat back together.... plus, you get a trem! pete IF I do it, it would play fine and sound ok I think for very minimum cost...I'd be looking at it from more of a conceptual angle and should be of some instruction to people thinking of doing their own (undoubtedly better designs) using a similar method and cost...also extreme quick build most likely...but we will have to see how things pan out just at the moment with the personal crap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Corvus body shape I'm offering to mail out a tracing of my template $200 budget, not including pickups include the cost of what you have lying around June 31st deadline, judging to start July 1st So long as it fits within those constraints, anything goes. Wez: ...going with an oil finish (breaking the rules)... Not any more. Some minor opposition and a fair amount of reason caused me to reconsider the paint rule. I only used Stew-Mac as a point of reference - I never said anyone had to use their prices. I DO appreciate your spirit of fairness in not wanting to use your discount in the budget. As of today, one British pound = 1.3746 U.S. dollars. The budget was figured in U.S.D., therefore the British budget would be #275. ...now i can knock all that down to about £198.20 by not including the pickup and going with an oil finish... ...which puts you WELL within the budget. But then there's the issue of the finish. Did you WANT to paint it, or were you painting it due to the rules? Also are you capable of painting it yourself, and at what cost? I know you have someone else paint your stuff, but IIRC, that's for professional/time reasons, not capability. Here's a question to everyone else: Do we give Wez a break on the painting because he's a professional and has business considerations to factor in? Majority rules on this one. MattHarris75: I don't think anyone cares when you commit and do it, so long as it's in by June 31. I was wanting Friday evening as the date to set the rules in stone, not as a sign-up deadline. Orgmorg, Pete, Dirge: I did base my Corvus template off a tracing of my LP template. Orgmorg's 10 1/4" might be right. I ended up at 11", but I eyeballed it instead of sizing up the pic. Is ANY of my template tight? He11 if I know - I've never even seen a Corvus in person, much less had the opportunity to measure & trace. For template distribution, I suppose I could put the thing on my scanner with a ruler for size comparison and email it out to all who want it. It'd take multiple scans, so you'd have to piece it together. I was originally thinking to trace it and mail it. I could still do that for the folks in the U.S. I can look into international rates to see if it's reasonable. PM me with either you house address or email address and I'll send you the template. The current participants are: avengers63 / John Dirge For November Todd The Telecaster Kid Orgmorg Matt Harris Pete Wez Pete & Wez seem to be teetering on the edge, sh here's your official push. You're both in until you say conclusively "I'm out". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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