avengers63 Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 I don't know what thread this stemmed from, but here I am in the beginning stages. The idea is to see how thin you can make a guitar and still be functional, good sounding, and good playing. R.A.D. is working on a surface-mount pickup, taking design inspiration from an old Teisco pup I sent him. The hardware will be mini-pots and a hard tail bridge. The piece of white limba I have for the body is EXACTLY 1" thick. It's just barely not wide enough to have a 1-piece body, so pieces from the blank will have to be glued onto the widest parts of it. I'm going with a traditional Strat-like shape. With the body being so thin and lightweight, I figure to need the strap anchor pretty far forward. Under normal circumstances, the 12th-15th fret is the target. As it stands right now, it might fall near the 11th. We'll just wait and see on that one. The neck will need to be pretty lightweight as well. I picked up a 2" thick piece of Spanish cedar. It's used in acoustics, so the strength should be fine. It's also stupid-light. The body blank uncut weighs about the same as the 2" thick piece of cedar. No neck dive on this one. I really wanted to do a back-bolt on this one, but it's just too thin. The surface mount pups would eliminate the normal routes taking away material for the bolts to go into. However, the body itself will be too thin. Oh well - a set neck it is. I'm wholly undecided on what to do to the body. Bevels would look great with the shape, but there's not much there to work with. Also, I might need to mount the pups in a pickguard, which would make the bevels look silly. I'll figure something out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 i had an electric with a 1" thick body (60's teisco).... but everything else was pushed forward to make up for it, the neck sat high as did the pickups, bridge was maybe tom height but un-angled I see 1 1/4" as being perfectly satisfactory though for more modern styles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 1" should be interesting. at least you can recess the pickups a bit if need be. I will get on that new pickup a some point. Holiday season is pickup building season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 1" should be interesting. at least you can recess the pickups a bit if need be. I will get on that new pickup a some point. Holiday season is pickup building season... You're my hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 I like the carve idea at the horn tips! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarkid4143 Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Have you ever heard of Pauliwona? Its like Ash, but a HELL of a lot lighter. -gk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Have you ever heard of Pauliwona? Its like Ash, but a HELL of a lot lighter. -gk Experiments with paulownia are interesting to say the least. I personally need to experiment with it. The almighty preeb (Gill) at TDPRI decided it was great. And that alone make me want to try it. Paulownia-Research Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 maybe a neckthrough it would make up for the lack of width plus you dont have to attatch a neck that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Chris: The fine-tuning of the shape/contours is a work-in-progress. With the flat ends of the horns, the sharp bevels looks pretty darn good. The issues are 1) do I continue them around the rest of the body or not, and 2) how will it look with a Strat/Ibanez-like pickguard? We've seen on the SG that sharp bevels that aren't continued around the body look fine, so I think I'm good there. The p/g that extends to the perimeter of the bevel is the big question. Anyone want to Photoshop something for me? GuitarKid: I've heard of paulowina, but I have yet to come across any. I haven't even seen it available through the main two on-line lumber yards I use. Y'all know me though... I'm eager to use something different whenever I have the chance. Tim: You're right that this would be the PERFECT candidate for a neck-through. Unfortunately, the cedar isn't long enough for that. And, uh... whaddya mean "attach the neck that way"? Since I can't do the back-bolt, it's going to be set. I'm wanting to do something cool with the body. I definitely do NOT want to paint it, but I'm not sure how white limba will respond to dyes. There will be some experiments with color in the immediate future. As for the finish, I'm giving serious consideration to buffing the wood to 1000 grit or so, maybe even 4000, then oiling it. I really dig the natural waxy feel of limba, but it needs something to bring out the color. Some extended experiments with linseed oil are in order as well. For the headstock, I think something Parker Fly inspired is in order. For the fretboard, I'm currently thinking zebrawood with black blocks, or cherry with abalone dots. I haven't seen anyone use cherry for a f/b yet. It's certainly durable enough, so I can't imagine why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 (edited) Narrow down the waist... add to the hips.... just like a woman should be. The glue lines should be nearly invisible. Some testing with various dyes. The limba takes it pretty well. It'll some down to what color do I want it to be. Edited October 2, 2010 by avengers63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFly Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Narrow down the waist... add to the hips.... just like a woman should be. Oh yeah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Narrow down the waist... add to the hips.... just like a woman should be. Oh yeah? You know it, babycakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 John, you ought to be able to tint linseed oil to add add color in depth. I have done it with Danish oil anyway. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim37 Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 "attach the neck that way"? Since I can't do the back-bolt, it's going to be set. i just ment that since the neck is part of the body it doesnt have to be attatched to the body. it really came out wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buter Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 I've never met anyone outside of Australia who could get their hands on Paulowina. The boys who use it to build high end surfboards rave about it. No idea how it would work as a tonewood, probably a bit like cedar. What did you use to tint Danish oil, Scott? With no room in the spray shed, Danish oil has become my finish of choice (new compressor on the way, just trying to figure out what kind of spray gun would be best for waterbased finishes now). I like the carve on the horns, John. Good luck with this one. I've got my first bass next to me and I went quite thin with it to save on weight. I would have gotten away with it (if it weren't for those pesky kids) but I mocked it up with normal pots and when I went to install the active electrics, the circuit board was just that much taller. Never mind. Look forward to your build, as always. Cheers Buter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 I was thinking about it all night and all morning.... I'm going to dye it turquoise. It'll look great with the white pickguard as well as the cedar neck, chrome hardware, and dark-colored ferboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 I used Trans tint dye to tone the danish oil. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireFly Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Narrow down the waist... add to the hips.... just like a woman should be. Oh yeah? You know it, babycakes. You'd better put a volume knob on this one then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 I used Trans tint dye to tone the danish oil. I'll be doing some more experimenting with the dyes I have and the linseed oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 You'd better put a volume knob on this one then! Sorry, but I've been trying to figure out what you're getting at for 4 days, but I'm drawing a blank. Anyway... I did some experimenting with some dyes, finishes, and techniques. Here, I took the original side that I dyes various colors to see how well the limba dyed and attempted to wetsand some linseed oil into it. It drew out the dye, never to return. OK... one down. Here we have two things going on. LEFT: I wetsanded the dye into the wood, then hit it with a very light coat of oil-based poly. That one looks OK, but the pores are still wide open. RIGHT: I tried to mix some powdered dye into the linseed oil. Clearly, that one didn't work out very well. As all dyes that I know of are either water or alcohol based, and the oil is mineral spirit based, I really didn't think it'd work with either dye, but I really didn't have anything to lose. See, my HOPE was to be able to mix the dye into the oil as Scott suggested. This could then be wetsanded onto the wood. The sludge would be forced into the pores through the process. As the linseed oil cured, the pores would be filled with the colored sanding dust and harden into a smooth surface. It looks like more experimenting is in order. Unless something else works out, I'll probably dye the wood, then mix the remainder of the dye into some water-based poly and finish the body with that. I KNOW that one will work, and the color will look about a foot thick. In the meantime.... The bevel looks lretty good. Remember that the body is only 1" thick, so the bevels are only 1/4" deep. It'll be fairly subtle, but it should show up well enough when the finish is buffed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 I don't know whether you're aware of this or not, so if you are, just ignore it. When you're trying to add color to any finish, you add the dye/stain/pigment/whatever into the SOLVENT for that finish first. Never try to add color into the product. That means you have to be aware of the proper thinner/solvent for each finish you're using, and have some separate thinner/solvent on hand besides the finish itself. If Mineral Spirits is the solvent for your finish, then you go buy some Mineral Spirits, add your color into a little of it, then add THAT into your finish. So...if you're using 'PolyGoly's Danish Mineral Tung Varnish VooDoo' whatever whatever... You would have had your answer before you ever put the finish on the wood. You would have had your answer as soon as you tried to add a dye/stain/pigment into some Mineral Spirits IF Mineral Spirits was the thinner for the product you're using. I'll say it again: whatever finish you're using, you add your color into the thinner/solvent first, then add that into the finish. If the solvent won't accept the dye/stain/pigment, you're done, you have your answer. Now, on to options for you: You could almost certainly use a pigment like Japan Colors or Tints-All into your oil-based product. If you play with the amounts, you can use a pigment like that to achieve a transparent look, just don't put a lot in. Your local Artist Supply store will have the pigments you need, and Home Depot is now carrying Tints-All tubes. It's CHEAP. You can pick any color you want, and when used in the proper (small) proportions, will give you a trans look. You're Welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 Hey Drak...thanks for that.I never picked up that bit of info (I guess I did not read my finishing bible close enough) but it makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 No-Problem-O. I'll even amplify it a little. Dye goes into lacquer thinner, then the thinner goes into the lacquer. Dye goes into Alcohol, then the alcohol goes into the Shellac. Pigment or stain goes into Mineral Spirits or Turpentine or whatever, then that gets added into the Varnish or Tung Oil or whatever other kind of VooDoo Oil-based product you may be using. You never add a dye or colorant directly into the finish. You always let the thinner break it down and dissolve it before the finish accepts it. It -can- work (sometimes), but is definitely not the right way to go about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted October 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 I appreciate the constructive input. Now I get to have some more fun experimenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted October 7, 2010 Report Share Posted October 7, 2010 If you go back and try adding your color into a solvent, the original way you were trying might still work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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