Mors Phagist Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) Almost done with my 7 string, but theres some problems left. I slotted the nut appropriately, set the action, and tuned to standard. When I fret a note, its a sharper pitch than what it should be. So, I tuned the frets appropriately to their respective notes and it has good intonation without being set up yet. I am able to play fretted notes all across the strings and everything sounds fine, great even, but anything involving an open string is horribly out of tune. Assuming I played an F on my 6th string, the open string would be a much flatter than normal E, so much of a difference it makes anything with open strings sound awful. I was told a zero fret could help with this, but if I were to install one, would it alter the scale length? If it does, I may as well slot the freboard for a new nut, fill the bridge holes, and change the bridge position. This is a 25.5" scale length. The second problem is one with the input. When you plug the guitar in normally, you have to adjust the cable in order for it to work, and you have to maintain that position. If I remove the input and have the wiring exposed, as in the jack is not mounted to the guitar, and plug it in, it functions fine. Why would this have anything to it functioning or not? I intend to have a pro luthier/tech take a look at this if I can't figure these out myself. Edited October 10, 2011 by Mors Phagist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Did you use the Stewmac 25.5" slotting template If so - it has a couple different slot marks at the first fret point, maybe you accidentally used the wrong one and it now needs the zero fret installed? Have you measured the scale since installing the bridge? Is it still 25.5" of is it a couple mm over (maybe still the zero fret thing) It's strange that you say the intonation is correct if its making a wrong note as an open??? I'd have to be holding the guitar to work it out whats happened I reckon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Zero frets do not alter scale length. They just sit in the place where the nut break point usually is. If your nut is too far back you have two options to bring that break point forward. Install a zero fret or change the nut to a shelf nut. Take a ruler and measure 50% of your scale length from the 12th fret back to the nut and see where the placement error is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) Also, consider how a fret or a nut works. It changes to active length of the string to the distance between the fret/nut and the saddles. If you fret at 12, for example, you half the active length of the string. A fret and a nut do essentially the same thing, if the nut slots are cut correctly. Consider the following illustration: In the first picture, the active string length begins in the middle of the nut, which makes the active string length longer, and consequently makes the note lower. In the second picture, the active string length begins at the edge of the nut, like it should. Could that be the problem? Regarding your electronics issue, I'm wondering if you might have a short circuit at the jack. If the lead and ground wires are making an electronic connection sometimes, that will mute your sound. That problem can be fixed by shielding the wires near the jack with electrical tape. Just a thought. EDIT: In retrospect, I pretty much just illustrated what Prostheta was saying, but I hope that's helpful nonetheless. Edited October 10, 2011 by dpm99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 People in agreement is not a bad thing :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripthorn Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I agree with the comment about the stewmac template, as it can be a little confusing if using it for the first time. As for the input jack, I had this problem on the tele I recently finished. The problem was that I had shielded the whole cavity and when I plugged in, the tip of the cable just barely touched the grounded side of the cavity. If not that, then you might have a solder joint where when a certain kind of stress is applied, it doesn't have the right conductivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I agree with the comment about the stewmac template, as it can be a little confusing if using it for the first time. As for the input jack, I had this problem on the tele I recently finished. The problem was that I had shielded the whole cavity and when I plugged in, the tip of the cable just barely touched the grounded side of the cavity. If not that, then you might have a solder joint where when a certain kind of stress is applied, it doesn't have the right conductivity. This is the issue I mentioned. When you connect your ground (including grounded shielding), and your live line, you get a short circuit. That's how most kill switches work, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mors Phagist Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 I shielded the entire cavity with copper shielding. Is that the problem? Should I just tear all that out? XD I feel like a I did a good job soldering, so I don't think its a wiring contact issue. I didn't use the stewmac template, a friend slotted the fretboard for me along with where the nut needs to go. The scale is still 25.5, I don't have anything to measure it here though, but I measured it last weekend with a ruler and tape measure. Actually, it could be that point that dpm99 said, it all depends on where the contact with the string ends. I'll check this and get back. Still looking for a local luthier/tech. XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Let's get back to the "I didn't have anything to measure it with" part Please tell me when you installed the bridge that you measured the 25.5" from the nut to saddles Even if you didn't, just lie and say you did...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mors Phagist Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Yes, I extensively measured the distance from nut to bridge. I currently don't have anything to measure with, although I have measured many times previously. But onto something I can fix now, DO I REMOVE THE SHIELD TAPE FROM THE INPUT CAVITY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Yes, I extensively measured the distance from nut to bridge. I currently don't have anything to measure with, although I have measured many times previously. But onto something I can fix now, DO I REMOVE THE SHIELD TAPE FROM THE INPUT CAVITY? No just make sure it is not contacting the hot input of the jack. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mors Phagist Posted October 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Yes, I extensively measured the distance from nut to bridge. I currently don't have anything to measure with, although I have measured many times previously. But onto something I can fix now, DO I REMOVE THE SHIELD TAPE FROM THE INPUT CAVITY? No just make sure it is not contacting the hot input of the jack. SR I think it is, so I'll make sure to remove that as quickly as I can. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 You don't have to remove it all. Just make sure it's not touching any bare wires around the jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 You don't have to remove it all. Just make sure it's not touching any bare wires around the jack. Exactly - and if it's unavoidable then it's a design flaw you can fix next time, but this time just put some electrical tape or similar over where it's contacting. See if that fixes your problem before doing anything drastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mors Phagist Posted October 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Its not touching any wires, but its touching part of the metal where the jack connects to. It would be easiest just to remove the material around it. Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpm99 Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 That'll do it. Should be an easy fix. Let us know how it works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mors Phagist Posted October 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 Tore out all the sheilding tape in the input, and it always picks up now. Thanks guys! I might have to do a bit of rewiring to get the best sound out of it though, as I switched it to a different wiring diagram than the one provided by Dimarzio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElRay Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 On a related note, do zero frets need to be taller? I'm seeing some folks that are adamant that they need to be taller (like a nut is), but to me it seems like a zero fret shouldn't be any different than a regular fret. If it had to be taller, then how can you fret at the first fret without buzzing at the second fret, likewise, if the zero fret must be taller, then how could a capo ever work? Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Just a hair taller in my opinion,so that it doesn't buzz after time from the constant pressure over the zero fret...most frets see only a small percentage of the use of a zero fret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted October 21, 2011 Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 With a zero nut I just don't level it when I am dressing the frets that usually leaves it a hair higher than the rest. Not that I would ever use a "G*& forsaken" zero fret. It is very un-Gibson like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mender Posted October 22, 2011 Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 I always use zero frets on my builds. That way, the nut slots can be a teeny bit wider so the strings don't bind, and open strings have the same tone as fretted strings. Same as RAD, I don't dress the zero fret, I just polish it, which leaves it just a teeny fraction higher than the rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Zombie thread, I know. The only reason a zero fret needs to be higher than the rest of the frets is because it will get the most wear of any fret on the fingerboard. Otherwise it might as well be at the same level, but wear will lower it beyond that. Vibrato (both bridge and finger) plus tuning at tension causes string wear at this constant contact point. I used harder fretwire (stainless generally) for my zeroes and also do not leave a large gap between the nut and the zero. This significantly reduces lateral movement over the zero from left hand vibrato. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxAxSxS Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) Dont't tear out your shielding! You probably just need to bend some wires or add something to keep it from grounding out. I've done the same thing a few times and normally its just a matter of bending a wire. Edit, And my first post here is in a necro thread Edited May 29, 2012 by AxAxSxS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Excellent entrance :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stringkilla Posted June 9, 2012 Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) O.K. I also have the same electronic issue mentioned here, but there is a caviet. It has happened to a guitar, my Shecter Diamond, that has never been opened. I have used various cable types and it still is there. And to add to the mystery, it started to happen with my two year old Tele that, also has never been opened. ***??? Edited June 9, 2012 by stringkilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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