pauliemc Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Was making up a batch of neck blanks yesterday, during glue up My mind started its usual 'overthinking simple things' crap. Anyway. Truss rods, How best to install them & what is the best type to use? Iv installed martin style box rods & stewie mac hot rod in flat channels. Put traditional fender styled single rods in with wedged fillets to put a little bend into the rod. Iv made my own 2 way rods & put them into flat chanels (later found out PRS had a very similar system). Used solid aluminium slugs with no adjustment & even Maple/Carbon fibre 9 piece milti laminates with no truss at all. not exactly stuck in my ways Im thinking of standardising my necks a little, So im looking at picking a method & sticking with it. As I have absolutly no preferance on this I was wondering what the rest of you guys use. Prefered methods ? types ? materials & so on. Any ideas ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mender Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I used to make my own truss rods with 1/4" mild steel bars, but my last builds have been done with this type of double action rod http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400061678962?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649. Works exactly the same as the StewMac ones, but use a shallower route, and of course, far cheaper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripthorn Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I use rods similar to what Mender posted, but they have the blue pvc jacket on the outside. I find them incredibly easy to install (just did one night before last). I have used them in fender and gibson style necks, as well as in mini guitars. I quite like them. Just use a 1/4" route for the main portion and a 3/8" route for the nut end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I make rods like stew macs hot rods but mine didn't have threads on each end. It's bent on one and threaded on the other. I prefer rods like the hot rod because it holds the neck perfectly where you want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I tried heaps of different rods until I used the allied luthierie ones. They are the best by far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mender Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I use rods similar to what Mender posted, but they have the blue pvc jacket on the outside. I find them incredibly easy to install (just did one night before last). I have used them in fender and gibson style necks, as well as in mini guitars. I quite like them. Just use a 1/4" route for the main portion and a 3/8" route for the nut end. I have a couple of blue and a couple of black rods here. This is the blue one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190584088388?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Apart from a 2mm difference in length, there is no difference in quality. I tested them by placing them under a 56 pound steel block, then turned the adjuster. They all lift the block easily. I think that is more strain than they will ever be subjected to when adjusting a guitar neck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted February 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 2 way rods seem to be getting the nod. Does anybody have any preferance for double action single rods ?. Or are we all looking to dual rods with an adjuster & a stabaliser bar/rod ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I use allparts double action trussrods (almost identical to the allied rod) in a shallow slot. Used to use the warmoth style single action but the allparts DA fits in the same depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avengers63 Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I almost always use the rods from Bitterroot on eBay: link. They're inexpensive and they work. What more can you ask for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 I don't think there is any rod type on the market that I haven't used and would not hesitate to use again, other than Stewmacs Hot Rods (too deep) or a low quality rod that will not outlive the instrument it's fitted in. As long as the rod fulfils its intended function, then it is good. Everything else is personal preference. My only hesitation is with the rods pre-wrapped with PVC as Ripthorn and Mender mentioned. If I can't see the quality (or lack thereof) in the welding and construction then I can't feel confident about the quality of the rod on the whole. The design and function of these are great, but I have always cut back the PVC to inspect the weld and file down the edges flush. Lubricating new rods with copper/lithium/moly grease goes without saying. I guess I perceive parts like truss rods as a "semi-finished" product which needs fettling and adjustment before use, same as a factory new hand plane for example. Even Lie-Nielsen and Veritas planes need inspection and setup before use. Not entirely sure where I'm going with this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YetzerHarah Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 I've had good luck w/ these from wdmusic: I tried a Warmoth rod once (which was fine), but they're expensive & come in odd lengths. The StewMac ones are trash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpa Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) I make my own. Its the most basic 1-way model, unit cost winds up at about 3 bucks and I can do custom sizes. Just 3/16 mild steel rod, brass acorn nut (drilled thru and threaded) and anchor block out of 3/8" bolt section. The rod is set into a precurved channel and covered by a curved hardwood fillet. I too, find the Stew-mac hotrod too deep (and too expensive/unit). If I were planning on building lots of guitars and preferred the hotrod I'd probably be taking advantage of their bulk price rather than buying one at a time. Not to knock 2-way truss rods but I've rarely experienced the need to adjust a backbowed neck. IMO, thats a shoddily built, sh**ty neck, start over. I don't build those kinds of necks. I've seen a few backbows out of all the repair work I've done and they were on sh**ty guitars. We all like to keep costs down and this is one area where I don't find its necessary. Good discussion topic. Edited February 11, 2012 by Southpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westhemann Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Actually two way rods offer more leverage and are superior in every way to standard "old school" rods.Which is why every manufacturer is quickly moving to two way rods or are already there. Saving $12 or so to get less control of your neck is counter-productive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 I would go as far as to saying that there are two schools of thought on truss rod selections. One is practicality and the mechanical characteristics of the rod, and the other is the contribution to the resonant characteristics of the neck part of the guitar system. Wasn't it yourself Southpa who was a vocal advocate of the compression qualities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 I think Ill be making these rods myself, They run out at about €5.00 a piece for a double action rod that way. Thats with an adjustor & brace bar. The single action rods usually cost about €3.00. Im not sure what they realy do tonaly. 2 rods VS a single rod The order I have is fairly varied & so wont allow me to make much comparison. Although all of the necks are my 5 piece maple & walnut laminate with a rosewood board. 22.5mm at the first fret & 25 at the body. These are usualy seriously stiff, which is why I use 2 way rods. Guys playing 9 guage strings usualy have to get their neck releif with the rod, as the string pull is not sufficient. I have noticed that the mild steel rods have a sound to them that the stainless ones. the stainless seems to have less of a clang or high pitched ping when you hit it. Sounds different in the saw aswell. I wonder if that transferes to the tone of the neck? I might let the customer decide, but then that could be opening myself up to all sorts of headaches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'll actually back away from my tone-scepticism for once and grant that truss rods more than likely do affect the way the neck sounds in a guitar as a system. The neck is after all the weakest and most affective part of the guitar between the vibrating ends of the strings, and anything that affects stiffness and transmission whether directly or indirectly are factors in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'll actually back away from my tone-scepticism for once and grant that truss rods more than likely do affect the way the neck sounds in a guitar as a system. The neck is after all the weakest and most affective part of the guitar between the vibrating ends of the strings, and anything that affects stiffness and transmission whether directly or indirectly are factors in this. Kinda hit my current train of thinking on the head there. Im thinking that a single bar, 2 way truss rod with a fillet between it & the fretboard might be the way. Less of a hollow in the neck than a double rod system. I use a carbon fillet pushed down realy tight against the rod. the truss rod itself is stainless 6mm bar, threaded in opposite directions into 8mm stainless blocks at either end. good n stiff. Does anybody know anything about the rod PRS uses ? I put my 2 way single rod in a flat chanel with a flat fillet over it. I know they use a 2 way single rod aswell, but is it in a flat chanel ?. I know they are not exactly lawsuit happy like some other manufacturers. But as my numbers of guitars are going up, I dont want to clash with anybody & get my ass kicked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdog Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Ever since my first proper neck build I have used the SM Hot Rod with two CF reinforcements at the sides. But I always thought I was missing something in terms of tone. This was until the very latest two Gibson replica builds, where I used the old school 3/16" compression rod, and I have to say I like the tone a lot more. I agree with Prostheta in that the neck is one element that has a major influence in final tone. And the simpler the neck construction, the woodier and livelier I find it to sound. My previous approach of HotRod + CF is probably overkill, based on my own beginner's insecurities. As a matter of fact I hardly ever had to adjust the TR at all in those necks. After the neck has been built true and straight I only adjust the rod just a bit to prevent rattling and that's it. They don't even upbow much under string pressure. The comment I got from my (extremely few) customers is that they love the stability of the neck, but I personally find the tone a bit sterile. Today I am more in favor of a simpler neck construction. If it is well built and the wood is decent, you should not need much more than a simple rod. And it find them a lot warmer sounding. However, If I a customer requests the extra stability, I will stick to the proven formula that worked for me, only change would be the WDmusic style of two way TR (a bit shallower than the HotRod). BTW: I would like to know about the PRS rod too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I agree with Prostheta in that the neck is one element that has a major influence in final tone. And the simpler the neck construction, the woodier and livelier I find it to sound. There is only so far you can go with that until people start suggesting making necks without truss rods for "superior tone". and maximum unplayability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YetzerHarah Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 they install the truss rod at 1:06 It looks like a strait channel to me, but maybe someone w/ better eyes will see something that I missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Saw that video during the week, my old man found it on youtube. (How crap am I that a 60 year old is more atuned to PC's & youtube & all that crap than his son ) Anyway. I found this one aswell Looks like a flat fillet that goes over it. That says flat chanel to me. as I use curved fillets in my curved chanels. Their rod looks fairly dainty compared to mine, Very similar but lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 The channel is deeper at the heel than the neck. It probably runs parallel to the neck thickness taper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdog Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 The channel is deeper at the heel than the neck. It probably runs parallel to the neck thickness taper. Just like the vintage Gibson ones. I'm really liking this idea, seems like the best of both worlds. Does anybody know if these PRS type of TRs are commercially available anywhere ? Or should I find a blacksmith and get some done ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 The channel is deeper at the heel than the neck. It probably runs parallel to the neck thickness taper. Just like the vintage Gibson ones. I'm really liking this idea, seems like the best of both worlds. Does anybody know if these PRS type of TRs are commercially available anywhere ? Or should I find a blacksmith and get some done ? So my single rods are almost identical. modeled them on early gibbos, but made them 2 way rods. OK. I rekon I will go with the single rod 2 way truss, Maby switch to a maple fillet instead of carbon (cheaper ). Iv never looked around to see if they are for sale, I just make up batches of my own every few months. Maby Ill offer them here if anybody has any interest & cant find them anywhere else. Just have to figure out a price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgmorg Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well, I can't really see too well what is going on there, but if it is a single rod, wit two way adjustment, then it is most likely the same as one that LMI used to sell many years ago. It had reverse threads on one end and regular on the other, each threaded through a small steel block, with a hex nut welded onto the end. Hopefully they have improved the quality, because the LMI ones **SUCKED** The nuts were badly welded and would snap off if tightened too much, and "too much" was not too hard to do. Fine threads on one end and coarse on the other would be much better, like on the Allied Lutherie rods. I use the Allied rods for my guitars that adjust at the headstock, and they are excellent, but I wish they would use a thicker tubing on the bottom rod so it would fill up the channel and not rattle. Their "solution" is to tell us to glue a filler strip on top, pushing the rod down into the channel. Very annoying. I just wrap little pieces of electrical tape on the bottom rod. It works, but still... For my guitars that adjust at the heel, I use a one way double rod from ebay seller Bezdez, and put a spoke wheel nut on the end. I would love to use an american made truss rod, but LMI's rods have always disappointed me, crooked welds and such. At some point I just may start making my own. Edit~ Duh.. just saw the second video which I didn't notice before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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