Neck Angle And Playability

[killemall8]

So, this is something that has been on my mind for most of my building career.

I used to think that guitars played better with minimal neck angle and a lower bridge, with the strings more parallel to the frets.

But recently, i did a guitar with a little bit steeper neck angle, and it played better than any i have ever made.

I just made one with a TOM bridge, machined to be shorter and sit flush with the body. I am very confident in my fretwork. This guitar doesnt seem to hold low action anywhere near as well as the other guitar with steeper neck angle.

In my head, i picture it as though with a steeper neck angle, it allows the string to clear the next fret more than a lower neck angle.

Any thoughts on this?

[pan_kara]

Hmm. I can't comment on the playability that much since nearly all guitars I ever played had zero or very little neck angle. But in terms of action and setup my simplisitic view is the following:

First I'd just imagine there is no body at all - just the neck and the bridge. Action is defined by the position of the saddles relative to the projected surface of the frets. Regardless of the type of bridge. So I can't see any fundamental relation between neck angle and action - if there is one then I'm missing something and I'd be happy to learn what

The rest is standard stuff I guess - when you choose the bridge type you choose more or less the distance between the bottom of the bridge and the strings. So the distance between the strings and the body (barring things like recessing the bridge etc). So then you have to add the body back to the picture - the top ends up either parallel to the strings or not (modulo carving), depending on the height of the strings above the body at the bridge (-->bridge type) and the height of the strings above the body plane at the neck joint.

[killemall8]

I think you are misunderstanding what i am talking about.

I am not saying one gets better action than the other. They can both be set to the same height. But the playability between the 2 at the same action is different.

[pan_kara]

Ah, sorry - I guess the part "This guitar doesnt seem to hold low action anywhere near as well as the other guitar with steeper neck angle." threw me off.

If its only playability then I can think of two things: one is that steeper neck angle bings the fretting hand closer to the body (assuming the back of the guitar is flat), so the ergonomics should be better a bit I think. The other is what the palm and the forearm of the right hand rest on. Here its probably a matter of preference. I've always rested the palm of the picking hand on the body, when I play a guitar with a TOM bridge it feels a bit awkward.

I don't see any other variables..

[demonx]

Ok, fretwork is fretwork no matter what the angle.

The angle is in relation to the bridge height. Higher bridge, more angle.

A lot of people recess the bridge to have less angle, I myself prefer more angle, it makes the guitar feel more comfortable and less cheapo Chinese. A guitar with more angle tends to wrap around your body a bit better and just feel more comfortable. The neck doesn't feel like its hanging out flapping in the wind.

With that said thought, after playing a no angle neck for a few minutes you adjust pretty quick.

[killemall8]

I dont think you get what i am saying.

I am saying, i think a guitar with a higher bridge and more neck angle eliminates fret buzz compared to low neck angle and low bridge.

A low bridge with low neck angle, when you fret, it pushes the whole string down almost flat across all the frets at the same time.

with steeper neck angle and higher bridge, It creates more of a "v" shape wiht the string where it is fretted. Having the string blelow where it is fretted being higher, clearing the fret above it more, thus allowing lower action and less fret buzz.

[westhemann]

Nope.Not true at all.

I prefer higher bridges and steep neck angles purely because It fits my picking style better,

[Workingman]

If you think about it, the strings and the neck remain in more or less parralel planes in either case. The neck angle relative to the strings is the same. The neck angle does allow you to have your hands closer to your body. For some this may result in cleaner playing which could allow for a lower action

[bob123]

I dont think you get what i am saying.

I am saying, i think a guitar with a higher bridge and more neck angle eliminates fret buzz compared to low neck angle and low bridge.

A low bridge with low neck angle, when you fret, it pushes the whole string down almost flat across all the frets at the same time.

with steeper neck angle and higher bridge, It creates more of a "v" shape wiht the string where it is fretted. Having the string blelow where it is fretted being higher, clearing the fret above it more, thus allowing lower action and less fret buzz.

The strings should ALWAYS be relatively parallel to the fretboard, neck angle or no neck angle. Any perceived difference should be your comfort handling an angled neck. I personally hate angled necks, because of the feel difference. Its possible in your later builds your fretwork and building has gotten better, and thats why it plays better. The neck angle shouldn't matter for fretting action, keeping everything else constant. IF your strings are indeed higher, then your action can not be lower unless your frets are taller.

To make this point further, take a close up side picture of both your angled and non angled guitar necks. Compare them. I am willing to bet they look pretty damn similar.

[guitar2005]

Exactly. Neck angle has nothing to do with the action.

If you need to angle the neck to accomodate a certain geometry or build style & bridige, the action is still setup the same way.

Personally, I like strings closer to the body. I build to maximize that proximity, within reason, of course.

First I'd just imagine there is no body at all - just the neck and the bridge. Action is defined by the position of the saddles relative to the projected surface of the frets. Regardless of the type of bridge. So I can't see any fundamental relation between neck angle and action - if there is one then I'm missing something and I'd be happy to learn what

[Prostheta]

Are we discussing instrument ergonomics or instrument setup here? I agree with pan_kara in that there is definitely no relationship between action and neck angle. Simply take it to the extreme as a thought experiment and you see that neck angle is not a factor.

When it comes to ergonomics however, the complete opposite is true. String height off the body, arm cutaways, stance and all other things which affect human-instrument interaction can make an Explorer feel 100% different to say, an Ibanez Sabre. Or a classical. Or a Flying V.

For my own part, I prefer TOMs recessed or rammed. Closer to the body is good for me. None of this - unless the instrument is "beyond spec" - has ever affected the capability of dialling in a preferred setup. I can make a fat Gibson's setup feel as low and "fast" as that of a thin-flat Jackson/Ibanez, excepting the radius and neck thickness differences, wire sizes....

It's all a big mix but there is definitely a clear differentiation between neck angle and setup.

[killemall8]

That just isnt how i picture it at all, but alrighty. I am usually wrong anyway.

The fretwork is identical. The builds i am comparing are my 2 most recent, back to back, within 3 weeks.

[mwcarl]

The angle that the strings break over the bridge saddles might also be affecting the playability that you're seeing. With a steeper angle I can imagine that you might experience less buzzing at similar action since the string is being partly 'encouraged' away from the frets. Other than that, I can only imagine the other effects are just ergonomics and how they relate to ones picking hand mechanics.

[Prostheta]

Logic aside, I have to agree that some instruments just feel and play slower than others. Whilst I don't think it comes down to the neck angle on its own, the combinative effects of neck shape, fret height and dressing, fingerboard radius and rolloff, string tension, etc. can make two instruments feel totally unalike.

To bring this back to Luis' point about the flush TOM and the other with the steeper neck angle, i think the choice of bridge unit (TOM) can be thrown out of the window. I made a 7-string copy of my favourite Ibanez using a TOM bridge and the neck set at a marginal angle compared to the Ibanez' Lo-Pro. Mine plays low and fast, just like an Ibanez which was the objective and design parameter from the outset. Up until this point I had the illusion in my head that TOMs made for slower-playing instruments. Les Pauls, my Explorers and others reinforced this (probably due to fat neck profiles). My preconceptions about neck angles disappeared at that point.

I doubt that neck angles of up to 4° - as can be commonly found - would introduce anything new to the stability (of lack of it) in an instrument however it would be interesting to figure out what you are seeing here Luis. I always like learning something new and if this genuinely is a thing then let's figure it out. I am wondering what you mean about "strings parallel to the frets" but though. Surely that is the case with all instruments whatever the bridge or neck/body geometry (excepting the elements of relief, etc.)?

[komodo]

Semi-related: I built a simple guitar with parts that were laying around for my son. Body was based on Nuno's N4, and I made it pretty thin, Simple Charvel Strat like neck, one pup and volume, and a Badass wraparound bridge like so: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar,_non-trem_bridges/Adjustable_Wraparound_Bridge.html

The front of the body is flat, neck is slightly angled with the neck pocket deep enough to get the fretboard close to the body, and the bridge/string height FEELS higher than it is and makes it harder to play for me. I can't say it's any more than a TOM, but I think it FEELS like it because the body is flat vs. the carve of a Les Paul. It's not a huge deal, but it had me thinking about why compared to other guitars and hardware setups.

Interesting too, because to me the typical Strat feels like the strings are way too close to the body.

Edited March 10, 2014 by komodo