Les paul special build(s)

[Bizman62]

5 hours ago, ADFinlayson said:

Then I'm going to attempt my second burst - nothing crazy, just a little bit of shadow on the edges.

Great minds think alike... Looking at the pictures I thought a burst would wrap it up nicely - and then you said it on the last row!

[mistermikev]

looks wonderful.  I think you could have stopped at the yellow and also had a wonderful finish.  kind of a joe perry boneyard thing.  this is just as lovely and a bit more depth.  rawk on.

[ADFinlayson]

5 hours ago, mistermikev said:

looks wonderful.  I think you could have stopped at the yellow and also had a wonderful finish.  kind of a joe perry boneyard thing.  this is just as lovely and a bit more depth.  rawk on.

Thanks Mike, I think the next one will have to be yellow, I think I need to pay more attention to what the sander is doing too for a more even job. I could also really do with a better sander.

She's had a brown burst and a coat of clear to seal it all in. Need to sand the binding back again to tidy it up. Then it needs all the clear, but I've just run out of lacquer  

[Andyjr1515]

Looking good from here! 

 

[mistermikev]

1 hour ago, ADFinlayson said:

Thanks Mike, I think the next one will have to be yellow, I think I need to pay more attention to what the sander is doing too for a more even job. I could also really do with a better sander.

She's had a brown burst and a coat of clear to seal it all in. Need to sand the binding back again to tidy it up. Then it needs all the clear, but I've just run out of lacquer  

noice

[ScottR]

On 12/24/2021 at 5:14 PM, ADFinlayson said:

purple + yellow = brown

All opposites on the color wheel will make brown when combined. Note that every opposite on the color wheel is made up of a combination of the three primary colors which when mixed together makes brown. Interesting how when using pigments the totality of colors equals black and the absence of colors equals white. When using light the totality of colors equals white and the absence of color equals black. Because we can only experience color in the presence of light (a combination of reflection and absorption), we can never actually achieve black using pigments unless the pigments are black and even that is subjective--black always has a red shade or blue shade or green shade etc. subtle though it may be, And white always has a blue shade or yellow shade and so on. And the bottom line of that for our uses is that dark combination of opposite colors on the wheel for sandback produces cleaner dark areas in the contrast than using black pigments.

On 12/24/2021 at 5:14 PM, ADFinlayson said:

I don’t think I’ve ever pulled off that amount of contrast before

That is due to the combination of the colors you chose--those opposites on the color wheel and the intensity (saturation--dye to solvent ratio) of dye applied--particularly the darkest one, and just as important, the amount of sandback you did. Very nicely done!

SR

[ADFinlayson]

Well I haven't had the best time with this one. Got a couple more coats of clear on it, all good expect a little bit peely, 

Finally got the pickups for it delivered today so this evening I did a test fit, and I stupidly didn't route the p90 channel correctly, I routed it with a bearing bit as usual, but I forgot to come back with a 1/4" straight bit to get that tight radius in the corners, so the bastard pickup doesn't fit. 

So I thicknesses some offcuts I had and made a template, pieces flush against the sides of the route then routed in the corners with the 1/4" straight bit. I was half expecting this to go horribly wrong, either, the masking tape and super glue or accelerator might ruin the lacquer, or I might just trash it with the router. 

I got lucky, very.

Pickup now fits quite nicely, But the next thing to hack me off was that my humbucker ring does not match my p90 and I'm really struggling to find a decent match.

The pickup ring is a Hosco Light Cream which is almost a perfect match to PRS Ivory pockup rings, the OX4 P90 which is Cream, I spoke to Mark and he said he get's his pickup covers from Crazyparts.de which is where I get the ebony parts for previous builds. He said they do a "Gibson" humbucker ring, but they're insanely expensive and they don't match the Gibson P90 cover they do - I looked myself and one hundred effing euros for pickup rings!

However the switch tip (Switchcraft) is a perfect match to the P90. So I wondered if I could get a closer match elsewhere, Nothing.

Annoying because I really like the Hosco Light Cream coloured pickup ring, it's a perfect match for my bone nut blanks and I have some ABS binding the same colour.

The more I look at this with pickups in situ, the more I'm thinking black p90 and pickup ring would suit it better now anyway, but I still want to get matching cream/bone coloured parts. Really annoying that nothing plastic is the same. So if anyone knows where I could get that vintage cream look in a pickup ring, let me know!

We've gone from super mild over xmas and NY to frosty mornings so I think that will be it for spraying finishes for a few days. 

 

[mistermikev]

I've got literally scores of different cream rings and other parts for this reason.  like white... a slight difference really stands out.

while I think it'd look fine black... another nice route might be one of the chrome p90 covers.  that'd look pretty noice.  if you are like me... it will bug you that you gave up on your first choice - whether the 2nd choice is for the better or not... so might just snag some random other p90 covers and cream rings and see what shakes.  what doesn't work today will likely save you tomorrow.  just a thought anyway.  

[Bizman62]

10 hours ago, ADFinlayson said:

I got lucky, very.

with a little help of skills you've developed.

Would a matte sanded black P90 cover match with the fretboard or headstock?

Or does any of those have the right colour?

https://guitarpartscenter.eu/en_US/c/Pickup-Rings/192

https://www.thomann.de/gb/goeldo_humbuckerrahmen_pl11.htm

https://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/parts-c4/pickup-parts-c710/pickup-mounting-rings-c97

https://www.axesrus.co.uk/Humbucker-Rings-s/2219.htm

https://www.gear4music.com/Electric-Guitar/Parts_Spares/Pickup-Mounts

[ADFinlayson]

10 hours ago, mistermikev said:

I've got literally scores of different cream rings and other parts for this reason.  like white... a slight difference really stands out.

while I think it'd look fine black... another nice route might be one of the chrome p90 covers.  that'd look pretty noice.  if you are like me... it will bug you that you gave up on your first choice - whether the 2nd choice is for the better or not... so might just snag some random other p90 covers and cream rings and see what shakes.  what doesn't work today will likely save you tomorrow.  just a thought anyway.  

Hehe yeah, I am on my way to having a plethora of plastic parts now too. 

[ADFinlayson]

4 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

with a little help of skills you've developed.

Would a matte sanded black P90 cover match with the fretboard or headstock?

Or does any of those have the right colour?

https://guitarpartscenter.eu/en_US/c/Pickup-Rings/192

https://www.thomann.de/gb/goeldo_humbuckerrahmen_pl11.htm

https://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/parts-c4/pickup-parts-c710/pickup-mounting-rings-c97

https://www.axesrus.co.uk/Humbucker-Rings-s/2219.htm

https://www.gear4music.com/Electric-Guitar/Parts_Spares/Pickup-Mounts

Thanks Biz, I had a look through those - Some suppliers I'm not familiar with there. As usual it's a job to tell what the colours are going to look like when they actually arrive. That's the problem with this, if the white balance on the camera is just a hair off, they look a totally difference colour. 

[ADFinlayson]

By jove, I think I may have got it. the cheap cream rings from Glued to Music are a more or less perfect match to the Gibson cream p90s from Crazyparts, at least close enough for me not to care. It's just a shame that I now hate my choices. Thought amber would go nice over the orange, doh! and while I think cream works, I'm not convinced it will look as good as black. So I might swap it all out.

For some context.

[ScottR]

1 hour ago, ADFinlayson said:

Thought amber would go nice over the orange, doh! and while I think cream works, I'm not convinced it will look as good as black. So I might swap it all out.

I think the creme works well, but am not so sure about the knobs. I s that what you were saying? While I admit that the creme sometimes can look striking, I usually default to black. Black goes with everything.

SR

[Bizman62]

I was thinking similarly to @ScottR. Black is a safe bet. But who wants safe?

[ADFinlayson]

1 hour ago, ScottR said:

I think the creme works well, but am not so sure about the knobs. I s that what you were saying? While I admit that the creme sometimes can look striking, I usually default to black. Black goes with everything.

SR

Yeah you're right, I bought the amber knobs on a "ooh I wonder if that might work", but I ordered black knobs prior, black with the silver reflectors but they just haven't arrived yet. I think you're right in that the cream does work although the light cream would have been better, but I think with this colour that black is the one. I Need to have another play around when all the other parts arrived. Still needs more coats anyway.

[ScottR]

Nice save on the P-90 route BTW.

SR

[Prostheta]

2 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

I was thinking similarly to @ScottR. Black is a safe bet. But who wants safe?

Depends if you want grey black, scratched-up black or the classic golden black (texture like sun?).

[Muzz]

The cream definitely works, ties in nicely with the binding  

[ADFinlayson]

My new gun is life changing. I started wet sanding this one tonight - Normally something I do over a week of evenings starting at 600, often going down to 400. Well tonight I started at 1200 on the top, 800 on the back, couldn't believe how easy that was.

And then I had my first proper go on the buffing arbor

 

`

I've still got a bit to do on the buffing but I didn't want to over do it. But I got to that point < 3 hours, down from a week of stressing over it. 

[Andyjr1515]

Wow - you can see the difference from here!

I've probably missed the post, but what spraygun /system have you gone to?

[ADFinlayson]

Thanks Andy, I had an Earlex 6003 HVLP turbine that I've been using since summer 2019 which worked well but I couldn't control pressure at the gun due the the proprietary connections and it used a lot of paint. This is the Earlex - very portable and easy to use and I could box it up and put it away when not in use.- £300. 

I sold that at the weekend to another budding luthier from Newbury (I think he was as interested in the workshop visit as the turbine) and got myself the compressor kit from spray guns direct, which is a 24L compressor, lines and filter and I got the Anest IWata LPH80 mini gun with it. All in the compressor setup was £470 but I sold the turbine for what I paid for it. - The earlex is discontinued in the uk and the only equivalent sprayers new are £500-600 so we both got a good deal out of it.

The difference between the two guns is night and day- it's smaller, lighter and easier to control, easier to clean, uses less paint and I don't have to thin the paint as much. Less orange peel and less over spray but I have found it's easier to get runs but that is because more of my paint is staying on the work so it's a case of nailing the technique.

The compressor sits nicely just outside the booth. Pros and cons are that it's slightly louder than the turbine but it only comes on when it needs to fill up and there is plenty enough air to spray a coat so it's nice to be able to hear the gun when I'm painting. It takes up more space inside and I have lost a dumping ground for my long timbers but I haven't really got anywhere I can put it outside. Keeping it in my always dry workshop though means there is less condensation build up in that tank than if it was in a shed. It would probably piss the neighbours off outside too.

This is certainly a cheap compressor and I don't expect it will last forever, but I've seen there are slightly bigger "silent compressors" which claim 60db so one day I will upgrade. In an ideal world I want a compressor that I can use to run an air sander but I've neither got the space nor the power supply in the garage to run one. 

[Andyjr1515]

Excellent info, @ADFinlayson    . 

I've toyed with getting a spray set up from time to time (although pretty much nowhere to set one up!) and had looked at the turbine ones but hadn't tracked down anyone who had actually tried them for this kind of work.  This is great info and I think confirms my own conclusions.  Compressor rig it is! - just got to work out how or where I could create a usable setup

 

[ADFinlayson]

So I noticed something when I was inspecting the finish. There were some white marks/small specs - my first thought was f$%k I've burnt through the finish, but I noticed they were raised like bumps. I took a bit of wet 1200 too them and they disappeared back to smooth matt and I don't appear to have burnt through (I think). Annoyingly I did not think to take a photo before I sanded the marks off.

Could this be some residue building up on the surface?

Could I be staying too long in one place? I never let the surface get hot though.

Do I need to rake clean the mops on the buffer?

I have the same thing on my last lacquered build, I just assumed that I'd burnt through and I figured I'd just refinish it some time. Now I'm doubting that I've burnt through the finish on that one at all.  

[MiKro]

8 minutes ago, ADFinlayson said:

So I noticed something when I was inspecting the finish. There were some white marks/small specs - my first thought was f$%k I've burnt through the finish, but I noticed they were raised like bumps. I took a bit of wet 1200 too them and they disappeared back to smooth matt and I don't appear to have burnt through (I think). Annoyingly I did not think to take a photo before I sanded the marks off.

Could this be some residue building up on the surface?

Could I be staying too long in one place? I never let the surface get hot though.

Do I need to rake clean the mops on the buffer?

I have the same thing on my last lacquered build, I just assumed that I'd burnt through and I figured I'd just refinish it some time. Now I'm doubting that I've burnt through the finish on that one at all.  

Sounds more like your gun is not clean and spitting out atomized droplets. Check tip and parts for any build up also make sure that your filter is clean as well. I will assume you are using a filter cone for the clear coat before it goes into your gun? Also make sure you are thinning your clear coat properly. Also could be over spray?

mk

[ADFinlayson]

7 minutes ago, MiKro said:

Sounds more like your gun is not clean and spitting out atomized droplets. Check tip and parts for any build up also make sure that your filter is clean as well. I will assume you are using a filter cone for the clear coat before it goes into your gun? Also make sure you are thinning your clear coat properly. Also could be over spray?

mk

Thanks Mikro, I've had what you describe before but they've been visable prior to sanding - I don't think this is anything to do with the spraying process, when it was levelled prior to buffing, it was silky smooth, no lumps or dips