I Give Up Trying To Sell What I Build...

[Jehle]

I wasn't sure where else to post this topic, but "Shop Talk" to me could also be about "talking shop" and about being a professional luthier.

So, having said that. I had the grand idea of building guitars like I do, from reclaimed and recycled parts. Now, I don't build trash. In fact, I really love my guitars and I don't want to sell them because I know how well they play and I love their sounds. But, people really don't care, or so it would seem, that I've hand crafted and assembled this guitar from a jumble of parts, that I've had to make things fit, that I've created a one of a kind playable work of art.

I feel like I'm being pressed into a position that I have to make a strat copy like everyone else in the world, or continue making a better and unique guitar that nobody wants.

I'll come out of the duldrums before too long, but for right now, I've had the wind knocked out of me. :|

[mattharris75]

I think that, to a certain degree, it's a matter of deciding whether your goal is to be in business to make money or to pursue your creative muse. The two are not neccessarily mutually exclusive, but it seems to be fairly rare for both to co-exist. Particularly for those who are less established in the marketplace.

And really, if your goal is to build a guitar that you find interesting, and the design and building process is a creative release for you, then what difference does it make if anyone else wants to pay big money for it? Pick yourself up and be happy with the unique works of art that you are creating.

Or...Go out and do what it takes to make money, without regards to your creative whims. Maybe one day you'll get to the point where you can indulge yourself and people will be falling over themselves to outbid each other for it.

So, which is it going to be?

[Jehle]

Oh, I'm torn. I'd love to crank out a bunch of cummy guitars that I could sell at $120 just to make a buck, but that's not why I started this whole venture. I wouldn't be happy in the long run. I didn't start building to make money anyway. I built to make my own sound. Ironic now that I almost never play and record any more.

Really, what I would like to do is make a bunch of guitars and then have an exibit in a museum as some modern artist. It's a long shot, but it's such an outrageous idea that I might as well go for it.

So, the muse wins. I build what I want and people can continue to be the mindless drones that they've been programmed to be.

[Supernova9]

If you want to sell things, people have to want them. If you don't want to build what people want, then don't sell. It's not that hard, is it?

I love how you call everyone mindless drones because they don't want your recycled guitars. Quite frankly, if I'm putting money down on a custom guitar, I want NEW parts. I'm not mindless, I've considered that opinion. Regardless of you and your artistic intents, a guitar to me is a tool to make music, not something to hang on the wall. Take up painting, or cut a cow in half and stick it in formaldehyde if you want to run an art exhibition.

[thegarehanman]

I stick my guitars in art exhibits all the time. Don't do that for the money either, because there's none to be had there...unless you're selling your guitars at unknown painting prices, of course, but that wouldn't turn a profit either.

peace,

russ

[Jehle]

True, products generally fall into one of two categories. A product can be made and then marketed to sell to the public. Or, the market can be analysed and products can be made that producers know will sell. There's room for both, but in todays marketplace, the second case is almost always true. It's very rare for someone to make a product and then try to sell it.

And to be more precise, I think people are mindless drones because they keep buying the same things without questioning why. It's not because they don't buy my stuff.

Take a look at that Pod, or Marshall stack you play through. Ever wonder why you have that piece of kit?

[CrazyManAndy]

Maybe it isn't your product so much as your marketing and business skills?

CMA

[brutas]

I agree with Crazy Man Andy. Not to be rude. I am a marketer so I know takes a lot of money and time to market products. The world if full of examples of inferior products killing superior products. Classic example is VHS and Beta video cassettes. Sony did a good job of making there VHS systems to the general public faster and convincing us they were better, but theaters use Beta because it is better quality.

To respond to the above comment about "recycled junk" maybe you have heard about the guy who marketed The Pet Rock. Common garden rocks that he named and put in clever packaging. The public thought they were great.

I would encourage you to continue to be unique. Appeal to a niche and forget the rest.

Best of luck,

Brodie

[fryovanni]

I hope I never feel like I need to sell a guitar I make, or feel pressured about any aspect of the projects I build as a hobby. The reward is in the process, and accomplishment for me. I made a deal with myself to keep it that way. If something starts mucking with how I feel about the hobby, I will simply avoid whatever is causing the problem.

Peace,Rich

[Jehle]

Maybe it isn't your product so much as your marketing and business skills?

CMA

Call within the next 10 minutes and I'll throw in a set of Ginsu Steak Knives!

NOW HOW MUCH WOULD YOU PAY?

[Rick500]

Don't answer now, because if you call in the next 15 minutes, we'll DOUBLE YOUR ORDER!!!

[johnsilver]

Really, what I would like to do is make a bunch of guitars and then have an exibit in a museum as some modern artist. It's a long shot, but it's such an outrageous idea that I might as well go for it.

There is a Louisiana artist named Francis Xavier Pavy who also makes "art guitars" and displays them along with his other art. My avatar is one of his early paintings. He is a nice guy.

Pavy

[johnsilver]

Maybe it isn't your product so much as your marketing and business skills?

CMA

Call within the next 10 minutes and I'll throw in a set of Ginsu Steak Knives!

NOW HOW MUCH WOULD YOU PAY?

[soapbarstrat]

I love how you call everyone mindless drones because they don't want your recycled guitars. Quite frankly, if I'm putting money down on a custom guitar, I want NEW parts.

Taylor's pallet guitar seems to have enough fans that anyone building with recycled materials shouldn't need to give a damn about your preference.

[Southpa]

I've had a couple friends say they want to buy this or that guitar that I built. But I take their words with a grain of salt....unless they show up at my door with a bunch of hundred dollar bills. What you need to do is rub elbows with LOTS of guitar players, jam with them do whatever it takes to get them to try out your guitars for a few minutes. And ask them to give you a critical rundown on how they like your work. They may not want to buy your guitar but they can certainly spread the word around and say that you build decent guitars.

The problem is the brainwashing that has been going on in the music "biz" over the past 30 or 40 years. You get some kid whos been thrashing away on his cheap Chinese plywood guitar and all he can think about is saving enough money to buy that Gibson or Fender. If it doesn't say either of those names on the headstock then its not worth bragging about and there is no resale value. Face it, a one-off custom guitar is not worth squat to the "mindless drones" unless the builder developes a reputation and becomes famous somewhere along the way.

[ibreakemineedtobuildem]

You should put together a killer build and pick a Pro to give to them as a gift.

A pro's circle of friends who like your stuff would work fast for reputation.

[Xanthus]

Once I get enough guitars to satisfy myself (4-5, already got them planned out) I plan on playing with ONLY my homemade guitars. That way, after a gig or whatnot, people will come up and say hey, where'd you get that awesome guitar? *insert sales pitch here*

And when I become superfamous, all of my multiplatinum records will have been recorded through my homemade guitars Maybe I'll have a few interested customers by then, that'd be sweet!

I've already had people come up to me inquiring about a project, after only having seen my sh*tshow of a first build. I'm honestly surprised that you don't have people knocking down your door, Jehle. Then again, I've got enough friends and have been to enough Guitar Centers to know about the drones. I can't swat them away from the Marshall full stacks and the Ibanez rack some times.

I agree with brutas. Be unique, methinks it'll be more satisfying in the long run. There's definitely a niche to be filled, it's just getting the word out there. I, for one, like your stuff a lot!

Always the best of luck

[Mickguard]

Well, there are two halves to being an artist. There's the creative part, but then there's the commercial part. I'd wager that pretty much every successful artist is equally adept at the commercial side (maybe even more so), or has someone else doing that work for him/her. Very little of the 'success' part has to do with talent, vision, etc.

But it all gets complicated by trying to add a third component--that is, craftsmanship--into the mix. As supernova kind of suggested, most guitar players are only really interested in whether the tool's going to do the job. Surprisingly conservative bunch. But then, you can see this easily--just look at the GOTM winners.

But what got me into this whole thing was the art side too-- in my case it was Girl Brand ...I like his take on it (not the painted stuff, the more sculptural guitars he's made).

Once I've brought my skill set up, I'll want to extend my own guitar building into the art side of things...for now, I'm reluctant to experiment with fancy paints, sculpture, carving etc, because it still takes me several months to build a guitar. When I'm at the point where I can build a good guitar in a month's time, it'll be time to start to play.

I think your stuff looks great Jehle, but, yeah, it's a hard sell...the ginsu knives might help though!

[jmrentis]

It's such a tough scenerio really, as an artist the last thing you want to do is compromise your art to sell. I don't believe that part of being an artist is necessarily needing to be commercial. In many cases yes you'll need to be, but thats not the true definition of being artist, thats more an entrepreneur, at least to me. Many, maybe most, true artists aren't concerned with selling their stuff, but rather they worry about producing beautiful art that is not compromised by selling or opinions. Often selling their art would be considered selling out as many people in the music industry coined the term.

However, there are also people that want to make and sell their art and others that just want to sell and just design things to be sold. The last person will be the most successful by a long stretch. For the others that enjoy making art and trying to sell I believe it will be very hit and miss, mostly miss. In my mind when making your own art, you are making something different from everything else;unique and personal, so it's very hard to make something that generally appeals to people, your sense of art and taste could be completely unique, in that no one else will like it, which makes it tough to sell without compromise.

I agree that your stuff is great Jehle. I truly wish you the best in selling your stuff and I bet there is a niche out there for you, but it's not an easy or dependable or profitable one in my opinion. If I were you, I might start trying new avenues like what Russ does, showing his stuff in art exhibits and such. Try to get your work established and known as art before trying to sell it as such. While your guitars might play like a dream I don't see too many people looking for a recording or gig axe wanting to buy your style of guitar, it may come across more like a gimmick to them, instead of a playable axe, which is why I would search for more artistic types of people. Just a thought. I do agree with the mindless drones/brainwashing point and this points floods every aspect of life.

As stated before I would continue your work and just search for new avenues and communities to find one that your work appeals to. Don't compromise your work, well don't compromise your art, if you want to sell generic bodies, or full on customs, then do so, but don't compromise your art to do so. If anything sell bodies and customs to establish a name and rep, then introduce your art line for connoisseurs of music and art. I really wish the best and hope you can find a medium in your life bewteen selling and creating art. I feel lucky that I have no desire to sell anything, which enables me to lay back and enjoy the process of building and the outcome. Well, good luck Jehle, I hope things change for you.

One idea I had for you: Maybe start doing semi-custom cigar box guitars, it'd be like expanding your CB guitars to custom CB guitar, which might help get the concept and desire for them out there. Make a site that says you will make a semi-custom guitar with whatever cigarbox the customer sends in. That way they can send the one they want to you and you can work your magic. Obviously, at the bottom say, "upon approval, requires photograph of cigarbox. See how many if any calls you get in a year or two and go from there, adjusting strategies, advertising, and ideas. J

[erikbojerik]

If you have no inherent visibility already (and who does these days?), people won't come to you. If you already have some level of celebrity, and people find out "Hey, he not only plays them...he makes guitars too!" then you have something that you might be able to build from and eventually cash in on.

Otherwise, you have to go to the people (marketing), and convince them why they're missing out (and what they're missing out on) while they've been unaware of your vision for the ideal instrument ("ideal" within some niche that you've identified).

But, people really don't care, or so it would seem, that I've hand crafted and assembled this guitar from a jumble of parts, that I've had to make things fit, that I've created a one of a kind playable work of art.

So what are we talking about here, cigar box guitars? Or something else? Is this "playable work of art made to fit from a jumble of parts" really a good description of your vision for guitars that you feel should appeal to a certain segment of people? In order to buy from you, people need a convincing answer to one simple question: Why would I want to buy that?

I don't know the whole deal here, but it sounds to me like you have no actual business plan; that all this time you've been happy to build to your artistic vision as a hobby, and along the way you've been hoping that a "build it and they will come" situation would arise and take on a life of its own.

[Vinny]

Jehle, hang in there buddy, you're just in a creative rut. Happens to all of us at one time or another. Mickgard and Jmrentis' comments struck a nerve. Its very personal making something yourself and putting it out there for everyone to critique/reject. You gotta be wearing your jock, it may get rough. Artist usually arent great markerters or businessmen, and vise-versa. Heres my story, I opened up a part-time business making signs from my home several years ago, It was a way to make use of my artistic side and I was teaching myself computers and software as I went along. Every task was new and I was enjoying myself. Fast foward 9 years, now nothing in the signs biz excites me anymore and I turn down the jobs that I know are headaches. What was once enjoyable is now dull and routine. The sign shop in town gets paid up front for everything, makes a lot of money and turns out mediocre work. He's a better businessman than signmaker. Im the opposite.

So while cruising the web looking for a Jazz box I came across this site, I was floored!! Regular people making guitars in their garages? Wow! I decided right at the beginning that this would NEVER be a business, that would ruin my enjoyment. If that body or neck sits on the bench for 5 weeks, then so what? it doesnt matter. I build for me and me only. The guitars I could'nt afford as a teen are on my build list now. You can get as creative as you want when its for you, building for a customer is a different story.

Jehle dont waste your time and talent on kids that know nothing. Aim you energy towards talented players with the means to buy a nice custom-made guitar. I think a buyer of a custom made guitar already owns a Gibby335, a 67 Strat and 2 Ricks. He/She knows whats great about each guitar and your job is to melt all those things together into one axe. Not as easy task for anyone. Here's my 2 cents, if you build something great, word will get out and people will find you. The only example of this not being true is Lou Reed, I still dont friggin understand how he's famous. Keep building -Vinny

[Vinny]

And one other thing Jehle, bring back the dancing banana avi ! He rules !!! -Vinny

[Supernova9]

I love how you call everyone mindless drones because they don't want your recycled guitars. Quite frankly, if I'm putting money down on a custom guitar, I want NEW parts.

Taylor's pallet guitar seems to have enough fans that anyone building with recycled materials shouldn't need to give a damn about your preference.

Do you own a pallet guitar? Do you know anyone who does?

Just because people appreciate something doesn't mean they'll buy it.

Tell you what though, survey 50 guitar players, ask them whether they'd prefer a guitar of identical playability, at identical price, made from new parts or recycled parts. I'll put a lot of money on more than half saying they'd like new.

[Mickguard]

The only example of this not being true is Lou Reed, I still dont friggin understand how he's famous. Keep building -Vinny

He's directly responsible for about half of the music made in the last 40 years, that's all. Of course, the Velvet Underground didn't make all that much while they were still a group. That's just how it goes in the art world, I guess. Hang in the Jehle, who knows what might happen in the next 40 years.

[Setch]

Not much of value to add, but I did want to chime in an say how much I dig your work, Bill. It's always witty and entertaining, something which isn't easy to find in a lot of musical instruments. I think the 'art guitar' market is a pretty small niche, but I think your stuff fits right in.

Unless you're at the point of drowning in guitars, I'd just keep building, trying to get your stuff seen, and eventually the right buyer will materialise.