Extra String Instruments

[avengers63]

I'm not trying to be snarky here. Seriously... I'm not. Please don't read into this ANY level of insult.

I don't get the fascination with 7 & 8 string guitars, and 6-9 (or more) string basses. I'm not suggesting we shouldn't branch out and explore lutherie areas yet to be explored, I just don't get this one.

To me, it's best summed up with a Steve Vai quote: "Why would you want a 7th string when you can't play the 6 you already have". He was talking about some nu-metal wanna-be. (No, I'm not suggesting y'all can't play!) Yea, he was being pretty arrogant. But he has a point, too.

I just don't get the fascination. Can someone please explain it to me?

[westhemann]

We had a topic aboput this a while back,and I was of the same opinion as you...but I have since changed my mind because of a new found fascination with Meshuggah and because of another member of the forum(Jon)...

Steve Vai should not talk...alot of the "music" he makes is utter trash,in my opinion....I doubt you would hear the same words from Satriani(A true genius,again in my opinion.)

I can't play a 7 or 8...because it hurts my 36 year old tendons...but if others can,more power to them..

By the way Steve Vai plays a 7.

[avengers63]

I'm kinda with you on our thoughts about Vai. I think he has a little too much "bells & whistles" and not enough "meat" sometimes. I'm not a fan of his style, but I can appreciate the ability. He clearly knows what he's doing. I knew he plays a 7. I figured he's well qualified to make a statement like that.

Satraini is a little hit & miss for me. But no, Joe wouldn't make comments like that. He's nowhere as arrogant as Steve.

I just can't help looking at the greats like Chet Atkins & Les Paul, or modern greats like Van Halen & Clapton and think "If THEY didn't want 7, what real need is there?"

[GregP]

I'm basically of the same opinion, but only after a certain point is reached: namely, I think 7-string guitars are fine, but 8 is kinda pushing it; and I think 5 string basses are the new standard, 6-string are still reasonable, and anything beyond that is pushing it.

It's not that the people who use them don't have their reasons. I'm sure they do. I just "don't get it."

Between the two (since the subject has been broached), I actually enjoy Vai's music not just for the athleticism but also the composition and even the over-the-top processed tone...but I prefer Satriani who is ultimately more lyrical and whose tone I appreciate a bit more.

[Jon]

I agree. Everyone will have different opinions on the subject. What's the point? It all boils down to "more range". What's with the fascination? The same reason there is the hatred, or the indifference for the extended range instruments - opinions will always exist. You can find all the quotes or opinions on these "newer" instruments all day long, but I suggest you educate yourself and develop your own. Even if it is a distasteful opinion, at least you're thinking for yourself.

I'm not one to argue this subject anymore. If someone wants to make a rude comment, I'll smile and keep doing the same thing. And if they're happy with being rude, it's a win/win situation.

[Thoughtless 7]

I play 7 string guitar. I picked one up cos my favourite band of the time used them. I play all sortf of music, but its mostly poprock and i just love how the 7 string sounds in that type of music. I'm probably not using it to its "full potential" but i'm happy so, there you go.

[avengers63]

I agree. Everyone will have different opinions on the subject. What's the point? It all boils down to "more range". What's with the fascination? The same reason there is the hatred, or the indifference for the extended range instruments - opinions will always exist. You can find all the quotes or opinions on these "newer" instruments all day long, but I suggest you educate yourself and develop your own. Even if it is a distasteful opinion, at least you're thinking for yourself.

I'm not one to argue this subject anymore. If someone wants to make a rude comment, I'll smile and keep doing the same thing. And if they're happy with being rude, it's a win/win situation.

Believe me, Jon, I'm in NO WAY interested in an argument of any kind. I'm not trying to bash anyone's tastes or opinions. I just want to understand the thoughts behind the players. Believe it or not, I want knowledge and insight.

Consider: How could one formulate an opinion from a neutral position without hearing all sides? Granted, I'm not 100% neutral, but I DO genuinely want to hear the thoughts of WHY someone would choose an extra-stringed instrument.

[Jon]

Hmm, took a while to locate this thread. But everyone has a different opinion: What attracted you to ERB's?

I can't say exactly why I play an ERB now, much like any 4-string bassist or 6-string guitarist would respond after years of playing their instruments. It's just what I've come used to. I enjoy the added range, the possibilities of chording, and the fact that I never feel limited. I guess it's more of a personality trait, I'm always pushing myself for a bigger challenge.

[Prostheta]

As a bassist and guitarist, I like having the extended lower range on 7 and 8-string guitars. Even though I love my eight, I love the "traditional" feel of a six. So much so, i'm extending the scale of one of my favourite sixes to lower the range but keep the neck style.

Despite enjoying larger range instruments, I can't fully justify their need as the capability isn't usually used by me to it's full advantage. They do however, inspire me to create through availability of range.

[Mickguard]

In that case, I better switch to a 5-string. Hey, Keef!

[avengers63]

Hmm, took a while to locate this thread. But everyone has a different opinion: What attracted you to ERB's?

I can't say exactly why I play an ERB now, much like any 4-string bassist or 6-string guitarist would respond after years of playing their instruments. It's just what I've come used to. I enjoy the added range, the possibilities of chording, and the fact that I never feel limited. I guess it's more of a personality trait, I'm always pushing myself for a bigger challenge.

Thanks. I'll read through this at work next week. I mean, why waste perfectly good weekend time!

[LPboco]

i think its all just a point to having more power and something different at your finger tips... why have a 6 string when you can have a 7 or 8 string...

for some its so that they can be different for some its to show off... i would love to own a 7 string so i could play and explore some songs that require all the strings, but yes a nine string bass is over the top... but its individual preference and its just the exploration of the concept of the guitar

everybodys different----for good reasoning

Connor

[Mattia]

For extended range, I'd really much rather play a baritone 6 string (tuned down to , which sounds great, and gives me a different vibe. Yes, big honkin' strings, much longer scale length, so the stretches are bigger, but they're just so much *fun*

[Dean]

To me it is the guy playing it,if you can play it ,it's all cool.To be honest ,I have seen some very strange instruments but the people playing them were great.So I guess I am saying to each there own.I have enough trouble with six strings.Sorry avengers63 ,I know this did not help shed any light on the why of it all.JMO

[mattharris75]

I think there is a different answer here for a 'luthier' than there is for a player. For people who build guitars we become immersed in design and details and tend to have a keener eye for these things than people who are only players. A person who exists in this particular culture is often going to be a bit 'ahead of the curve' when it comes to styles of instruments. This includes the number of strings. A player is often going to be excited to purchase something that closely mimics the axe of their favorite guitar god. A 'luthier' (I use that term loosely) at some point is likely to try to push the boundaries because they become bored with more traditional and 'mundane' styles. And I think that's the component of any specialized culture that forces innovation. So, while it may or may not be pointless on an individual instrument basis, ultimately it is a good trend for pushing instrument design forward and keeping it from becoming stagnant.

[Prostheta]

Good point there Matt.

[GregP]

I dunno. You could just as easily say it's the player who pushes the boundary on the number of strings, and that string numbers "beyond the conventional" are primarily customer requests (players) rather than luthier innovations.

"It goes to 11."

y'know?

Neither of those positions can be proved... it's all just opinion, and in my opinion it's more likely to be the player requesting X # of strings from a custom builder, than a custom builder creating something with X # of strings and hoping to find a market.

Besides that, the entire point would need to be predicated on the idea that all luthiers know more than all players. You can find a self-styled (or even trained) luthier with a remarkable inability to come up with a good design, or you could find any number of players who know their instrument and could come up with an excellent design even if they're not the ones who execute that design. It's really too much of a stretch to imagine that luthiers are inherently more connected to the instrument than players. (do I hear a "Leo Fender"?)

[mattharris75]

Greg, I did not imply that luthiers are 'more connected to the instrument than players', or that they know more than a player. Only that their perspective differs and that they are more equipped to create a reality from that perspective. My point was really that artistically luthiers will push boundaries to keep their work from becoming stale because of their familiarity with the medium and the depth they are enculturated to their work. Whether that means more strings, different species of wood, odd shapes, or any one of a number of other innovations. I did not intend to say that players can't push boundaries themselves. I know that often times a design is the collaboration between a player and a luthier. And most likely the great designs and innovations are the result of such. Just that their perspectives are different (as are all of ours to some degree or another). But, of course, only the innovations that a relatively large number of people feel have some merit will catch on anyway and the others will die or remain forever nitch designs.

[GregP]

I'm still not sure that luthiers are any more or less prone to conservatism than players. Any creative force who can exert a change on a stagnant medium sure gets my respect, though.

[CrazyManAndy]

I like Mattia's point. I would prefer a baritone. Another string (or three) is just one more thing for me to fumble over. I can certainly appreciate the desire for more range. But I'm pretty happy with six strings on guitars.

CMA

Edited April 14, 2008 by CrazyManAndy

[joshvegas]

you could just have twelve strings tuned up in semitone steps and a fret at the octaves, sorted!

Edited April 15, 2008 by joshvegas