Art Deco Themed Lp

[avengers63]

I got some chemical stripper and tested it on some scrap binding.

It didn't melt the plastic.

It didn't soften the plastic.

It ATE the plastic.

OK.... so I guess I'm down to scraping away the top layers of poly and bathing the underlying shellac with alcohol. From there I suppose I'll try and paint on some shellac very carefully, trying to avoid slopping it onto the frets.

[Drak]

If you looked at this as a typical guitar repairman would, like it's a job that came in the front door yesterday, instead of from an 'I'm the artistic creator' point of view, maybe there will lie your answer.

I would ask soapbarstrat or woodenspoke or some other guy who's done neck repairs for 20 freakin' years what they would do, because I know their answer would probably not be what you have suggested.

They will give you a reliable, tried and true answer. It may or may not be an answer you'll like, but it should be realistic.

Not someone who 'builds' necks, but someone who has repaired/refretted/refinished them forever.

A 'shop' or 'industry' guy.

Guitars are supposed to be able to be worked on, ...just like cars.

If you build something that cannot be worked on from a standard repairman point of view, then that might be a clue to your answer.

[avengers63]

I would ask soapbarstrat or woodenspoke or some other guy who's done neck repairs for 20 freakin' years what they would do, because I know their answer would probably not be what you have suggested.

All I can say to that one is that I posted the request for help last Saturday. I'd love to have had ten different suggestions on how to handle this one. You can see for yourself who has chimed in and with what advice. I can't make someone help out - all I can do is ask.

[Drak]

Those are the only two guys I know of here that I can think of, maybe PM 'em?

I don't think either one is a 'daily' PG guy that checks every thread every day.

[FireFly]

If you looked at this as a typical guitar repairman would, like it's a job that came in the front door yesterday, instead of from an 'I'm the artistic creator' point of view, maybe there will lie your answer.

I would ask soapbarstrat or woodenspoke or some other guy who's done neck repairs for 20 freakin' years what they would do, because I know their answer would probably not be what you have suggested.

They will give you a reliable, tried and true answer. It may or may not be an answer you'll like, but it should be realistic.

Not someone who 'builds' necks, but someone who has repaired/refretted/refinished them forever.

A 'shop' or 'industry' guy.

Guitars are supposed to be able to be worked on, ...just like cars.

If you build something that cannot be worked on from a standard repairman point of view, then that might be a clue to your answer.

*raises hand*

[Muzz]

If you looked at this as a typical guitar repairman would, like it's a job that came in the front door yesterday, instead of from an 'I'm the artistic creator' point of view, maybe there will lie your answer.

I would ask soapbarstrat or woodenspoke or some other guy who's done neck repairs for 20 freakin' years what they would do, because I know their answer would probably not be what you have suggested.

They will give you a reliable, tried and true answer. It may or may not be an answer you'll like, but it should be realistic.

Not someone who 'builds' necks, but someone who has repaired/refretted/refinished them forever.

A 'shop' or 'industry' guy.

Guitars are supposed to be able to be worked on, ...just like cars.

If you build something that cannot be worked on from a standard repairman point of view, then that might be a clue to your answer.

*raises hand*

I would be really interested to hear from the folks with fretboard repair experience on this one, I have never repaired a fretboard but I have used 2 part decoupage varnish to fill big dings in finish. I spoon the goop into the crater and cover with greaseproof paper, this contours the top of the repair with the area around it. Here is the technique used on my bass neck. The repair is neat but apparent, probably because of colour changes over time in the old finish and sharp edges on the damage.

Whether it would work on your situation Avengers, with smooth transitions and new finish, I don't know. If it did work you could mask off every alternate fret space and do the fix in two goes. Good luck with it

[avengers63]

I took some time out from scroll-sawing a couple dozen Christmas ornaments to work on this thing for a while. I managed to fillet off the poly with an X-Acto knife. For the most part, there is plenty of shellac left on the board. I shouldn't need to put very much on to have a good thickness.

I talked with a dude at a local guitar shop. He's their in-house tech and also works in a car finishing place. As he does the setups of the guitars that come in from the various factories, I talked with him about how finished necks usually come in from the factory. Unless it's a REALLY high-end ax, they all have the finish applied right over the frets. He's hound that the finish will eventually come off of the fret on it's own without chipping away from the fretboard.

With this knowledge in hand, I'm just going to brush on more shellac and let the frets take care of themselves. The finishing pads I use are pretty spongy, so I don't figure I'll have too hard of a time buffing it all out.

Worst case scenario: it looks like crap and I have to pull the frets and start over.

[plinky]

I talked with a dude at a local guitar shop. He's their in-house tech and also works in a car finishing place. As he does the setups of the guitars that come in from the various factories, I talked with him about how finished necks usually come in from the factory. Unless it's a REALLY high-end ax, they all have the finish applied right over the frets. He's hound that the finish will eventually come off of the fret on it's own without chipping away from the fretboard.

With this knowledge in hand, I'm just going to brush on more shellac and let the frets take care of themselves. The finishing pads I use are pretty spongy, so I don't figure I'll have too hard of a time buffing it all out.

Worst case scenario: it looks like crap and I have to pull the frets and start over.

I read somewhere (in an Erlewine book I think) that Fender used to take a nail with a groove filed in it to remove the finish from the frets.

I don't think they do that anymore because I did a fret level on a Strat Plus that had tons of leftover finish on the frets. I just gently scribed

and scraped it off with an Exacto knife blade.

Nice work BTW.

Edited August 31, 2010 by plinky

[Fliski Guitars]

I've finished a few fingerboards in shellac over the frets like you have. After a couple of hours of playing it started to come of the frets naturally. Play the hell out of her and they'll be good to go!

[pauliemc]

I've finished a few fingerboards in shellac over the frets like you have. After a couple of hours of playing it started to come of the frets naturally. Play the hell out of her and they'll be good to go!

Iv applied finish over loads of maple boards, Frets & all. Never caused me any problems. Just mask off the board after the finish is hardened & polish the frets with 000 grade steel wool. sorted.

[WezV]

I talked with a dude at a local guitar shop. He's their in-house tech and also works in a car finishing place. As he does the setups of the guitars that come in from the various factories, I talked with him about how finished necks usually come in from the factory. Unless it's a REALLY high-end ax, they all have the finish applied right over the frets. He's hound that the finish will eventually come off of the fret on it's own without chipping away from the fretboard.

With this knowledge in hand, I'm just going to brush on more shellac and let the frets take care of themselves. The finishing pads I use are pretty spongy, so I don't figure I'll have too hard of a time buffing it all out.

Worst case scenario: it looks like crap and I have to pull the frets and start over.

I read somewhere (in an Erlewine book I think) that Fender used to take a nail with a groove filed in it to remove the finish from the frets.

I don't think they do that anymore because I did a fret level on a Strat Plus that had tons of leftover finish on the frets. I just gently scribed

and scraped it off with an Exacto knife blade.

Nice work BTW.

pretty much what i do,

tbh i normally level and/or polish after finishing the board anyway so that takes care of it all as part of the normal process... there should be no need to ever play on the neck - and its looks real messy when its all chipping off from playing wear

if you order a finished maple neck from someone like allparts the finish is normall still on the frets

[FireFly]

I normaly finish, clean out the slots, then tap the frets in.

For me, taking off finish always leaves some sort of rough edge that peels to some extent later on. I'd rather have the rough edge of the finish pinned down under the fret.

[Drak]

I thought it went w/o saying you could spray the finish over the frets, I take that for granted as that's the way I've done all of my tinted Maple necks.

I just didn't think avengers was into spraying finishes, and there's the issue of the different inlay woods that may bleed onto each other if you attempted to do that as well.

I use my airbrush mainly for that procedure, and the lacquer is almost dry within a minute or two as the coats are pretty thin (but a lot of them).

I take my time with it for sure, but the bleed problem still exists, and I would never use shellac on a fretboard, I just think it's the wrong product for the job to last a long time.

Having said that, I have to be quite honest (tee-hee), I have all of my guitars, once finished and strung up for a few weeks, Plek'd and fine tuned by an excellent local luthier since he's much better at it than I am, and for the work I put into them, to not have them professionally set up at the end to me would be a waste of effort. My guitars are professionally built, so I figure to avoid having a pro set them up is stopping one step short of The Glory.

If I'm not good enough at it, I find someone who is, the guitar need not suffer for what I don't yet know.

So long story short, he files the finish off for me (such a cheesy cop-out, haha!)

But I also do not agree with 'playing the finish off', any good repairman (and I've talked to several) agree with that too, that's sort of a total cop-out method to finishing a neck off properly for maximum professional results and playability.

[avengers63]

It's been a while since I've touched this thing. i gave the fretboard a few coats of shellac, then left it to sit and cure for a good long time before I even thought about messing with it again.

And it looks like crap.

And the finish sunk into the gaps in the inlays that for some reason didn't get filled in with epoxy.

And the finish is really lumpy, so leveling it with the frets on would be a monumental PIA.

And my in-laws got me a fret tang nipper for my birthday 2 weeks ago, so fretting bound necks just became a hellofalot easier.

So I'll be pulling the frets, stripping the fretboard, and starting that bit over. Since the pure shellac finish on the f/b yellowed pretty badly and totally obscured the beauty of the woods used, I believe I'll be trying just a single sealer coat next time, and then w/b poly over the top. After I re-fill the gaps with epoxy, that it.

[guitar2005]

I realley feel for you, Avenger. Having to take the frets out must be a real pain the the A**, but in the end, you just have to see it as a learning experience.

I'm sure that it will look great when you're done.

[avengers63]

I pulled the frets tonight. I scraped off most of the finish, then hit it with 60-grit on the radius block to get off everything else. I got a couple spots of chip-out from pulling the frets, but I don't think it'll be a really big deal.

I'm still a little in-the-air about how best to go about re-finishing the board. I KNOW I have to use shellac because of the cocobolo, but it yellows out pretty quickly when a good layer is built. I suppose I could go with just one or two sealer coats and then hit it with some w/b poly for protection.

[fuzzymuffler]

Despite the roadbumps in your build, the inlays look phenomenal. Very creative. I love the headstock shape as well.

[jarvey]

I pulled the frets tonight. I scraped off most of the finish, then hit it with 60-grit on the radius block to get off everything else. I got a couple spots of chip-out from pulling the frets, but I don't think it'll be a really big deal.

I'm still a little in-the-air about how best to go about re-finishing the board. I KNOW I have to use shellac because of the cocobolo, but it yellows out pretty quickly when a good layer is built. I suppose I could go with just one or two sealer coats and then hit it with some w/b poly for protection.

Someone earlier asked why use poly? I agree. I am new to guitar building but I have lots of finishing experience as a furniture maker. I like this build by the way and think you are doing a great job. Poly can work over shellac and honestly I am not sure exactly what went wrong but doing samples might have prevented this. I try and take copious notes on my finishes so I can duplicate them. I use shellac all of the time but I do mix my own. You should be able to get phenomenal results with just shellac. Patience. Build up with very thin layers. I honestly just don't like poly unless it is on a floor or railings. I think the way you are solving the problem is a good solution and probably what I would have done. Thanks for posting. Great inlay!

[avengers63]

The headplate ended up darkening considerably so I stripped the thing bare and started finishing it again.

The fretboard is almost ready to buff out.

From the looks of things, I'll finally have this thing done is a week or two.

[Strato-Master]

Despite the shellac on the fretboard being topped off with poly, the clamps not only squished the finish and put a red discoloration into it, the pads went BETWEEN the upper frets to do it!!!!!

So I gotta ask - how many of you heard be go ape-sh1t from where you are?

All that I can do is scrape it off, give it a good rub-down with alcohol, and do my best to salvage it.

I thought I felt a disturbance in the force.

[avengers63]

I swear this thing has been infected with the same demon that was in RAD's SG. This b1tch just does NOT want to be done! When I was cleaning out the tuner recesses, the finish surrounding 3 of the holes lifted and chipped away, necessitating ANOTHER refinish on the headstock.

And the fretboard was no longer a true radius. I found out this little bit of joy when I fretted it on Monday. It all leveled out, but we'll just wait and see how it plays.

[Workingman]

Just keep at it, with breaks to keep your temper. It is going to be fantastic when it is done and thus worth it.

[Dirge for november]

Hang in there Avenger! Things 'll turn out right eventually! So far I'm loving this build, never thought this theme would work so well.

[RestorationAD]

I swear this thing has been infected with the same demon that was in RAD's SG. This b1tch just does NOT want to be done! When I was cleaning out the tuner recesses, the finish surrounding 3 of the holes lifted and chipped away, necessitating ANOTHER refinish on the headstock.

And the fretboard was no longer a true radius. I found out this little bit of joy when I fretted it on Monday. It all leveled out, but we'll just wait and see how it plays.

Put it away ... work on something else for a while. Then after it has cooled off it will all be good.

[avengers63]

Anyone have a black P90 cover they don't need? That's all I'm missing to finally have this thing done.