Silly Noob Questions

[bob123]

Sorry guys, I tried searching, but for some reason, pretty much every post prior to a few months ago does NOT work/show up for me. Not sure what that's about anyway.

Anyway just some things that cross my mind

1) what do I lubricate the truss rod with? I've heard candle wax, surely there must be something else more friendly.

2) is a shallow angle with a lock nut acceptable? I was thinking 5-10 degrees with no string trees.

3) this one is kinda dumb, where do I put the fretboard? I understand how it works on a bolt on just fine, but on a neck through, do I just put it where I want it, then measure out the body size from it? Surely there is some industry standard here. I have 48" of wood (about 10 more then I need) so I gave myself some room for error.

4) initial shaping of the fret board, first time doing that. I've done refrets before, just never with a fresh block. Any suggestions on going about that? 80 grit? 100? I usually use 400/600 for finished fret boards, but Im pretty sure that would burn my whole budget in just sandpaper lol

Edited April 16, 2012 by bob123

[ScottR]

Sorry guys, I tried searching, but for some reason, pretty much every post prior to a few months ago does NOT work/show up for me. Not sure what that's about anyway.

Anyway just some things that cross my mind

1) what do I lubricate the truss rod with? I've heard candle wax, surely there must be something else more friendly.

2) is a shallow angle with a lock nut acceptable? I was thinking 5-10 degrees with no string trees.

3) this one is kinda dumb, where do I put the fretboard? I understand how it works on a bolt on just fine, but on a neck through, do I just put it where I want it, then measure out the body size from it? Surely there is some industry standard here. I have 48" of wood (about 10 more then I need) so I gave myself some room for error.

4) initial shaping of the fret board, first time doing that. I've done refrets before, just never with a fresh block. Any suggestions on going about that? 80 grit? 100? I usually use 400/600 for finished fret boards, but Im pretty sure that would burn my whole budget in just sandpaper lol

1) I use a tiny bit of vaseline. Be careful to just keep it on the threads, you don't want it to get on the gluing surface of your neck.

2) You can get away with 10 degrees without string trees. I've never used a locking nut, but I'd think that if you had any break over angle at all and locked the strings you would be fine without trees. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

3) Locate your fretboard starting at the nut end by placing the nut where it needs to be in relation to the point of the headstock angle. The nut should sit on the last piece of flat real estate with the HS angle falling away immediately past it. Make your body whatever size it should be. Just figure out which fret you want the neck join to be at. I figure that by leaving just enough room for the neck pick up to clear whatever cutaways and scoops I have planned. Locate that and butt the other end of your fretboard against it.

4) I start with 60, then 100, 150, 220, 320, 400, 600, then micromesh from 1500 to 12000.

SR

[pauliemc]

Sorry guys, I tried searching, but for some reason, pretty much every post prior to a few months ago does NOT work/show up for me. Not sure what that's about anyway.

Anyway just some things that cross my mind

1) what do I lubricate the truss rod with? I've heard candle wax, surely there must be something else more friendly.

2) is a shallow angle with a lock nut acceptable? I was thinking 5-10 degrees with no string trees.

3) this one is kinda dumb, where do I put the fretboard? I understand how it works on a bolt on just fine, but on a neck through, do I just put it where I want it, then measure out the body size from it? Surely there is some industry standard here. I have 48" of wood (about 10 more then I need) so I gave myself some room for error.

4) initial shaping of the fret board, first time doing that. I've done refrets before, just never with a fresh block. Any suggestions on going about that? 80 grit? 100? I usually use 400/600 for finished fret boards, but Im pretty sure that would burn my whole budget in just sandpaper lol

1) I use a tiny bit of vaseline. Be careful to just keep it on the threads, you don't want it to get on the gluing surface of your neck.

2) You can get away with 10 degrees without string trees. I've never used a locking nut, but I'd think that if you had any break over angle at all and locked the strings you would be fine without trees. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

3) Locate your fretboard starting at the nut end by placing the nut where it needs to be in relation to the point of the headstock angle. The nut should sit on the last piece of flat real estate with the HS angle falling away immediately past it. Make your body whatever size it should be. Just figure out which fret you want the neck join to be at. I figure that by leaving just enough room for the neck pick up to clear whatever cutaways and scoops I have planned. Locate that and butt the other end of your fretboard against it.

4) I start with 60, then 100, 150, 220, 320, 400, 600, then micromesh from 1500 to 12000.

SR

Scott has it on the money here apart from the locking nut-string tree thing.

Locking nuts have an angled face that the string is clamped to, The string tree ensures that the string continues away from the back of the nut @ an angle that is similar. If you have no tree there is a possability that the strings will be pinched against the edge of the locking block & snap. So if the headstock is flat (strat like) you will need a tree, but if it is angled similar to the plane of the lock nut you will be fine without one.

Best advice id to just spend a while looking thru the build threads on here. Go download a load of drawings & study them aswell, they will have loads of critical dimensions to guide you. then start experimenting.

Someone posted this site a while ago. I forget who, but it has a massive amount of very good information.

My link

Download all of it for a nice library of referance info. Pain in the ass but this is probobly the best way to get yourself familiar with what you will need to be thinking about to build good guitars.

[demonx]

I have used lock nuts on most of my builds. I work to a 12 degree headstock angle.

When building a guitar I always position the fingerboard so fret access is #1 importance. I usually work the body angle from the 16th fret, but this can change due to scale/ fretboard length etc

I radius my boards at 80, then clean it up with 120 and then 320 before fretting. As I glue my frets I get a bit of glue clean up and paint bleeding at the paint stage, so I deal with making the fret spaces look nice at the end of the build.

[demonx]

Basically... The questions to asked are very vague as in the answers will be completely different due to the near infinite approaches to building a guitar.

My build process varies from many on this site, so you get different answers from different people, however you have to be smart enough to work out which is compatible with the build method you choose to use or you'll run into some trouble.

[MiKro]

Maybe start with a full scale drawing? Side view, top and bottom. That should get you close to where things should go. A working drawing is just that, it is your guide line plan.

[Prostheta]

1) what do I lubricate the truss rod with? I've heard candle wax, surely there must be something else more friendly.

Candle wax is friendly enough. As mentioned, petroleum jelly is a good substance to use. Equally, copper grease or any other number of persistent lubricants will do the trick.

2) is a shallow angle with a lock nut acceptable? I was thinking 5-10 degrees with no string trees.

Most instruments with locking nuts have a slight headstock angle however slighter angles (think, Ibanez JS with the Strat style no-angle) benefit from a tree which allows the strings to run at the right height towards the tuners. Without it there is possibility for strings not to wind properly or consistently with the usual problems associated with that. It also looks better to have the strings running perpendicular to the headstock face.

3) this one is kinda dumb, where do I put the fretboard? I understand how it works on a bolt on just fine, but on a neck through, do I just put it where I want it, then measure out the body size from it? Surely there is some industry standard here. I have 48" of wood (about 10 more then I need) so I gave myself some room for error.

Plan it all out and you won't need room for error. I work in CAD initially and work with the final project using 1:1 plans. A good sense of geometry and how to factor down tolerances helps. A few good steel rulers, a set of calipers, mechanical pencil, protractor, marking knives and other basic tools to ensure your measurements and angles are accurate will do all the work for you.

I would also add that the fingerboard is the one part that is always parallel to the grain in a neck-through. The body may lay 0-2° off that (or parts in several angles, ie. LPs) and the headstock 0-15°. Your fingerboard should be the index plane for everything else. Hope this helps.

4) initial shaping of the fret board, first time doing that. I've done refrets before, just never with a fresh block. Any suggestions on going about that? 80 grit? 100? I usually use 400/600 for finished fret boards, but Im pretty sure that would burn my whole budget in just sandpaper lol

It certainly will. Sanding a radius from 60-80 grit through all grades to 600+ (depending on the wood of course) is pretty much the norm. Some people plane in the basic shape of the radius, some rout but it always ends up with the papers. I would suggest being as methodical as possible as it is easy to develop bad habits such as "back and forth" sanding which creates a dip in the centre (think about it) or doing one area at a time. Long single passes are best until you are experienced enough to deviate from this to fix in the mix. Mark the centre 10mm of the board with pencil and sand in your radius until the sides come in to meet that strip. Don't sand it away at first. That helps with consistency. Check the length of the board for straightness regularly and obsessively. This one-time diligence pays off on the resulting instrument for its playing lifetime. No short cuts.

[bob123]

Thank you guys!

[Prostheta]

That's why the board exists....now make with the build and get documenting it!

[RestorationAD]

Parrafin wax does 2 things. It keeps the dust and glue out of the threads and does enough to lubricate the threads. It also stays in place up to 140 degrees... not enough for a car trunk but for most purposes good enough. I use it because it is a very permanent solution...and I always have it on hand (potting pickups).

[bob123]

Ok gents went vaseline route and put a very thin bead of silicone on the bottom, enough to stick, but not hold entirely.

Also... this is a very dumb question, but I cant seem to find it anywhere.... Radius the fretboard first THEN saw the fret slots, or vice versa???

fret board is attached.

ALSO, is there a good way to get the body down to the right size without a router? Hard question to ask without pointing out what I mean, hopefully someone understands what Im asking.

Edited April 20, 2012 by bob123

[USMCHueston0311]

Ok gents went vaseline route and put a very thin bead of silicone on the bottom, enough to stick, but not hold entirely.

Also... this is a very dumb question, but I cant seem to find it anywhere.... Radius the fretboard first THEN saw the fret slots, or vice versa???

fret board is attached.

ALSO, is there a good way to get the body down to the right size without a router? Hard question to ask without pointing out what I mean, hopefully someone understands what Im asking.

Saw the fret slots first, so that ensure accurate depth. Then do your dot inlays if you are going to, and then radius/polish.

Use a hand plane, a thickness sander, or a planer. Thats about the only way to get it right. Why dont you just buy a pre-slotted and radiused board from stewmac or lmii etc? Judging by your questions it seems that you are completely new to this and that would be a VERY wise decision. Cutting a fret board is difficult without the know how or the right tools man! You can pick up pre-slotted boards for 20-40 bucks usually.

/

[bob123]

Ok gents went vaseline route and put a very thin bead of silicone on the bottom, enough to stick, but not hold entirely.

Also... this is a very dumb question, but I cant seem to find it anywhere.... Radius the fretboard first THEN saw the fret slots, or vice versa???

fret board is attached.

ALSO, is there a good way to get the body down to the right size without a router? Hard question to ask without pointing out what I mean, hopefully someone understands what Im asking.

Saw the fret slots first, so that ensure accurate depth. Then do your dot inlays if you are going to, and then radius/polish.

Use a hand plane, a thickness sander, or a planer. Thats about the only way to get it right. Why dont you just buy a pre-slotted and radiused board from stewmac or lmii etc? Judging by your questions it seems that you are completely new to this and that would be a VERY wise decision. Cutting a fret board is difficult without the know how or the right tools man! You can pick up pre-slotted boards for 20-40 bucks usually.

/

Ah, I've done plenty of refret, plus I have the tools already. Im just figuring out order and process. Besides, I won't learn if I dont do it Never did a "from scratch" build, and buying a premade fretboard isn't "from scratch" . I used cheap enough wood and parts. If I mess it up, its not the end of the world, I can start over and redo it. Probably should have started with a bolt on first, but oh well. Diving head first here haha.

I think Im gonna just make myself a routing jig for the body, wont hurt

Edited April 20, 2012 by bob123

[ScottR]

Also... this is a very dumb question, but I cant seem to find it anywhere.... Radius the fretboard first THEN saw the fret slots, or vice versa???

fret board is attached.

Saw first and then radius is best, but it's not the end of the world to go the other way. It is pretty important to slot before you attach it to the neck though. I hope that's not what you meant by "fret board is attached".

What method are you using to layout and cut your slots? Indexing template? Miter box? Something more (or less) elaborate?

SR

[bob123]

Also... this is a very dumb question, but I cant seem to find it anywhere.... Radius the fretboard first THEN saw the fret slots, or vice versa???

fret board is attached.

Saw first and then radius is best, but it's not the end of the world to go the other way. It is pretty important to slot before you attach it to the neck though. I hope that's not what you meant by "fret board is attached".

What method are you using to layout and cut your slots? Indexing template? Miter box? Something more (or less) elaborate?

SR

Got a miter box setup, making a depth stop rig to attach to the box and using fret saw to do the work. That part is pretty straight forward, but Im not sure why it matters if the fretboard is attached on a neckthrough? Again, I'd have done it separately on a bolt on, but I figured it was better to shape the neck and fretboard together as one piece. Can you elaborate this for me?

edit : watching all the "Big name" manufactures build videos almost ALL of them attach the fretboard THEN slot is... So Im rather confused :-/

Edited April 20, 2012 by bob123

[ScottR]

It is better to shape the neck after the fretboard is attached.

When you are slotting you want to insure your slots are perfectly square to the centerline, unless you are doing a multiscale. Normally one uses one flat edge of his freatboard to establish a plane to square to. In simple terms this would rest against the edge of your miter box and your cuts are 90 degrees to that edge. Adding a neck blank to the mix just adds oportunity to get out of square. If your neck blank edge and fret board edge have been squared up together and the back of your neck blank is parallel to the top of your fret board, and the neck with fretboard fits into your miterbox, then go for it.

Cutting fret slots accurately is one of the most important parts of the build, so IMO it is best to illiminate as many variables as possible.

FWIW, I square up the fretboard first, then slot it using the StewMac template and miterbox glue that to the trussrod installed neck blank (before radiusing, so you have a flat surface to clamp with), then radius, then rough shape the neck.

Obviously there are many ways to get the job done.....but you did ask.

SR

[bob123]

It is better to shape the neck after the fretboard is attached.

When you are slotting you want to insure your slots are perfectly square to the centerline, unless you are doing a multiscale. Normally one uses one flat edge of his freatboard to establish a plane to square to. In simple terms this would rest against the edge of your miter box and your cuts are 90 degrees to that edge. Adding a neck blank to the mix just adds oportunity to get out of square. If your neck blank edge and fret board edge have been squared up together and the back of your neck blank is parallel to the top of your fret board, and the neck with fretboard fits into your miterbox, then go for it.

Cutting fret slots accurately is one of the most important parts of the build, so IMO it is best to illiminate as many variables as possible.

FWIW, I square up the fretboard first, then slot it using the StewMac template and miterbox glue that to the trussrod installed neck blank (before radiusing, so you have a flat surface to clamp with), then radius, then rough shape the neck.

Obviously there are many ways to get the job done.....but you did ask.

SR

Oh, well the back of the neck still isnt shaped and is fairly flat. I will be marking and measuring from the bottom of the fretboard to ensure accuracy though. My next build, I Will measure and cut out a slightly oversized fretboard first, slot it, THEN glue it up.

learning curves ftw

[bob123]

Ok got the guitar in mostly one piece now, Im kinda thinking about just letting it "sit" for a week or so, make sure all the movement is out of it?

not sure if thats overkill or not, what do you guys think?

Also, shape the top first or attach it, then shape?

[Our Souls inc.]

IMO,wood will still move, even after months of 'sitting'. As soon as you carve more off, it releases tension in other spots that *can* help it move.

I attach the top before carving, but then again, I attach the FB before shaping or radiusing. We all have our own ways of doing things......