Baking Guitar Neck To Make It Stronger?

[Dr Brine]

Curious to know if anyone has tried this or knows how to do it. I'm thinking of something similar to how Suhr 'vulcanizes' some of their maple necks. I have a neck laying around that Ive been experimenting with and was curious to see if I could try it out.

[killemall8]

I have NEVER heard of this... I have no idea why anybody would do that... Maple is more than strong enough on its own.

[Dr Brine]

well suhr does it because it also makes it impervious to moisture and climate changes

Edited July 15, 2010 by Dr Brine

[WezV]

i have a vague memory of something being mentioned in a guitar mag back in the 90's... a maker with a box full of failed necks till he started heat treating them. but thats rather vague and i know i may be remembering it wrong since i know so much more about guitars now compared with when i was a teenager... memory is a ****er! i will have to see if i saved the article anywhere, i did see it about 5 years ago when cleaing out the folks loft and i know i saved a few articles i thought may be usefull

[WAK Guitars]

I think I've seen someone on ebay selling birdseye maple neck blanks and they're "vulcanized" like you said or something along those lines. The wood looks darker too after it's done, if I'm remembering this right.

[WezV]

just had a look at the vulcanized stuff by suhr - comes out all chocolatey - i reckon tehre is more than just heat going on there

some acoustic makers bake the tops for stability

[Dr Brine]

I've also heard of roasted maple I know they use an autoclave for that at least.

[verhoevenc]

I seriously doubt it makes them IMPERVIOUS to heat and humidity changes... NOTHING will do that. About the CLOSEST I can think of that'll do that is acrylizing the wood. But even that's not 100%. Yes, some acoustic makers bake their tops. This apparently is used to sort of mimic the act of aging a top wood. And this provides obvious TONAL improvements (in theory if it's doing what they say it is... I haven't tried it so I don't know). By the same comparison, it is supposed to increase stiffness to weight ratio... but from what I gather this is a marginal change that only makes a difference because acoustic guitar tops are working on the limits of structures... monocot is the term I believe Ervin Somogyi uses for this... but don't quote me on that. A guitar NECK does not work like this. They would most likely all be considered "over braced" if you could view them like that. Because the neck is NOT limited by the minimal stiffness to weight ratio you CAN use, but by the size of neck a player WANTS. So, even if you do manage to bake a neck and increase the stiffness to weight ratio enough to see a difference... is the player you're building it for REALLY going to allow you to carve the neck in such a way that you benefit from this at the expense of going outside the norm, and what he most likely feels comfortable playing???

Chris

[SwedishLuthier]

In Finland there are a company that produce heat treaded timber for construction use. The heat treatment makes impregnation of the timber redundant. It can be used outdoors in the moist and cold climate here "up north". And have a look at this (scroll down for "heat treatments"). Oh, that Finnish company is mentioned in the text, Thermowood

So there might actually be some thruth to the notion that it would help preventing, say warped necks due to moist getting into the neck wood.

[Drak]

It's actually a common practice used when trying to straighten out an old warped neck, but for new necks, seems a joke more than anything.

But having said that, being around guitar building/repairing/restoring for 25 years, I've seen the silliest things come into fashion and take the industry by storm simply because guitar players are running out of things to obsess over...so I wouldn't be surprised if in 2 years everyone is heating their necks...wouldn't surprise me a bit...

15 years ago if you told someone you had purposely relic'ed a guitar, you would have been laughed out of the neighborhood...

Then there's chambering and all the voodoo behind that, weighted pegheads, fake Photo-lam tops, and the list of guitar oddities goes on and on...

[avengers63]

... memory is a ****er!

Give it a few years.

They say memory is the second thing to go. I don't remember what the first thing is.

[Quarter]

Along with Suhr, MusicMan has also been experimenting with the roasted maple. From what I've seen / read from MusicMan and Suhr is that its done to the rough lumber, not a shaped neck. The purpose is supposed to be solely a stability thing and in the case of Suhr, allows them to now offer figured necks.

[ihocky2]

This sounds similar to what the one lumber mill here offers. They call it Thermo Lumber, so far I've ash and poplar offered. They offer it as a substitute for pressure treated. It does not contain all of the nasty chemicals, so it is a more eco-friendly option to lumber used for outdoor projects. It even has that chocolatey color. If it is the same thing, then it is not really sealing out moisture but more preventing the wood from rotting. How much of a difference it makes on a guitar neck, I have no idea.

[soapbarstrat]

Sure, get yourself a special oven that removes all oxygen, so you can heat the piece of wood (not a shaped neck) at 700 degrees without it burning.

Suhr still puts a coat of urethane on them.

Not a gimmick if it's true that you only have to adjust the t-rod for your set-up preference and then don't have to touch that adjustment nut again. or at least very rarely and it stays right on the money.

Again, keep your already shaped neck out of the microwave oven, off the barbeque grill top, etc

[Drak]

Not a gimmick if it's true that you only have to adjust the t-rod for your set-up preference and then don't have to touch that adjustment nut again. or at least very rarely and it stays right on the money.

If that's true, then I'd buy it. And the way soap brings it across, I'm damn near a believer, as I trust his professional judgment knowing all the years he's spent repairing and working on necks.

You made me a believer <fingersnap> -just- that fast.

Nowww........relic'ing, a different matter alltogether.

[Mors Phagist]

Baking the wood before shaping it might help, but if the neck is already made and in good shape, I wouldn't risk putting it in an oven.

The Fretboard and neck might expand at different rates, and pop off... IDK, it just seems like a bad Idea to me. But these other guys know more about it, so go with whatever they had said.

[Woodenspoke]

First if anyone thinks they can just duplicate an industrial process at home forget it. Even if the idea was a sound one.

I have never heard of this until today. I am skeptical as I always am about such claims. Maybe the process destroys the wood fibers ability to reabsorb moisture and thats how it works, I have no idea. Putting on a finish does almost the same thing. If guitar companies spend the time to properly season the wood rather than crank out guitars by the millions then maybe we would not have neck issues with the guitars we buy. But then what would repair people do for a living.

I can believe adding something to the the wood such as ebonizing would have an effect that is measurable but this seems like hype. If it was true, the process would have been adopted by every major guitar manufacturer already as the cost would be minimal.

Toast your necks in an oven and stablize the wood 100%, not convinced. I will admit it would be very dry wood.

[Mors Phagist]

On a side note, what if you were to chill a guitar neck so it contracts ever so slighty, and then put it into the neck pocket for an extremely tight neck fit?

I figured since we were talking about Heating, why not cooling?

Bring it down to around 33 Degrees Farenheit so the water inside the wood cannot freeze and expand, and the rest of the material will contract. Insert into neck pocket, Attach screws, allow guitar to sit in shop for a while, and get an amazing neck fit.

Is this feasible?

[Ripthorn]

On a side note, what if you were to chill a guitar neck so it contracts ever so slighty, and then put it into the neck pocket for an extremely tight neck fit?

I figured since we were talking about Heating, why not cooling?

Bring it down to around 33 Degrees Farenheit so the water inside the wood cannot freeze and expand, and the rest of the material will contract. Insert into neck pocket, Attach screws, allow guitar to sit in shop for a while, and get an amazing neck fit.

Is this feasible?

Two questions:

1. Why would you do this when you can already get a very tight fit without doing so and risk wood warpage due to the (probably minimal) expansion of the neck.

2. What happens when you need to get your neck out for a repair and can't because it is wedged in too tight?

[soapbarstrat]

On a side note, what if you were to chill a guitar neck so it contracts ever so slighty, and then put it into the neck pocket for an extremely tight neck fit?

If there's cutaways, I assume you'll be re-gluing one or two thin lips of wood at the ends of the neck pocket when they get blown out by the expanding neck. Don't get too caught up on the neck fitting every area of the pocket so extremely tight. On a glued neck, you need some room for glue. On a bolt-on, you've got it going on with the flat parts of the heel and pocket fitting firmly together. And you can even try a Walter Wright (He's a guitar repairman) trick of loosening the neck mounting bolts with the guitar strung up, so you have that 180 pounds (or whatever it is ? ) of string tension pulling the neck toward the bridge end of the neck pocket and then retightening the mounting bolts.

[Dr Brine]

yeah yeah it's all just a big gimmick go back to building your telecasters and bassman copies, nothing to see here.

[Woodenspoke]

Hey what if you freeze dried the neck first, or dipped it in liquid nitrogen or cryogenicly froze it. That may destroy the wood fibers as well without the burning smell.

Yes I am being sarcastic, but who knows it may be the next guitar neck upgrade. I mean if wood isn't good enough as just wood use another material like carbon fiber.

[Tim37]

yeah yeah it's all just a big gimmick go back to building your telecasters and bassman copies, nothing to see here.

this is probably one of the most open minded guitar forums your gonna find.

[darren wilson]

Suhr buys the wood already heat-treated, then they make the necks from the "roasted" wood. (BTW, what Suhr calls 'vulcanized maple', Anderson calls 'chocolate maple'... there's no standard industry terminology for what it is, though i'm fairly certain the wood industry calls it 'roasted'.)

This type of "roasting" is done in an industrial autoclave at extremely high temperatures and in a near-vacuum. This is what gives the wood its darker tone all the way through. You can't do this at home in your oven with consistent results... you'll likely end up just burning it.

Also, trying to "bake" a neck after it's been built/carved/glued is just asking for trouble.

[DC Ross]

(BTW, what Suhr calls 'vulcanized maple', Anderson calls 'chocolate maple'... there's no standard industry terminology for what it is, though i'm fairly certain the wood industry calls it 'roasted'.)

Vulcanizing is a process that has nothing to do with wood. I'm not sure why Suhr would call it that (unless he's impregnating the wood with rubber )