demonx Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 I'm curious what others think about their own builds when they self evaluate. I know when I do something right I have the "**** I'm awesome" feelings, but this threads about the down side. Often when I screw up or something doesn't turn out the way I plan or simply doesn't meet the standard I strive to achive I have self doubts. I question if I'm wasting my time trying to build guitars and I wonder if I'm playing at a hobby where I should just give up and leave it to the professionals. Anyone else have similar thoughts or other sorts of self doubt they normally wouldn't talk about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripthorn Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 I am working on my first commission right now and those types of thoughts have surfaced every time I've made a mistake, really. This is a set neck and I accidentally routed the neck pocket about 1/64th too wide, and when I found that out, I got really upset and had to just step back for a couple weeks. Then I ended up shimming the thing and all is looking good, but I definitely know what you are talking about. As far as builds for myself, I have cut up and tossed out two so far because they simply are not up to the standard I want them to be at. The really tough thing is that I work with lots of guys who love guitars, but don't build them. So when they see one of my builds, they tell me it's awesome and such, but I have to resist pointing out mistakes and stuff because I think that we hold ourselves to a really high standard as builders, even higher than lots of guitar enthusiasts. In the end, I think it's like my dad always said, the secret to woodworking is knowing how to hide mistakes and not tell anyone, because you won't have a perfect piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 A master craftsman isn't someone who does perfect work; it is someone who is able to cover their mistakes up perfectly.- Can't remember who it was that said it... or if that's a direct quote, but the jist is there. Either way, everyone makes mistakes, just learn how to cover them up well and don't take commissions until you're comfortable. Build for yourself, friends, or just build them and sell what you build if you're comfortable with the end result. I do what ripthorn does too; if there's a big mistake that really gets me down, I just up and leave the shop for weeks on end. I know myself, if the mistake is big enough it will consume my mind, I won't concentrate, and I'll end up just making more mistakes in my time of self doubt. But sure enough, if I'm out long enough the itch will pull me back in when I'm ready. Does this bode well for me ever doing it professionally/full-time? Not in the slightest, but that's not what I want from this hobby. Lastly, if something gets to the point where there are enough mistakes, you'll never be happy with it, etc. etc. It will just haunt you! I know this is a controversial topic, but destroy it! I've found it's the only way to get rid of that haunting feeling, to make you not waste time on a lost project, and to not put out a project that you wouldn't want anyone to see or play. My $.02, do with it what you will. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 On my current strat project, I made 3 major mistakes and I really felt trashing the whole thing. On of the mistakes, I only found out when I put the neck on. It can be VERY frustrating but I found a way to make it work. The problem is that in the back of my mind, I know I screwed up but other guitarists would look at it and love it. Its all a matter of perception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Workingman Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 I only do repairs and mods(so far)so take this with a grain of salt. About a year and half ago I took up playing upright bass. I am 51 and the chances that I will ever make it to being an in demand upright player are slim to none. I do it for the love of music and the instrument. Along the way I have become a better musician and have more insights into instrument construction. Yes I have self doubts but I enjoy the process. As a hobbyist it should be about enjoying the process. BTW I love your build threads and have learned a lot from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottR Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Not really. I don't guess I take myself seriously enough to beat myself up over mistakes. Don't get me wrong, I have a healthy ego, and plenty of self confidence, and a competitive nature that makes me want everything I do to be the best. And there have been plenty of occasions, where I've said, way to go, Riffle, that was stooopid. I don't guess I'll be doing it that way again. Then I get right to figuring out how to put it right. So far my builds have been to my specs (except one commission and even it had some room for me to indulge in a little freedom of expression) and my specs leave room for creative adjustment as I go. I'm doing a bit of that on my current build in fact. So I'm not trying to meet exact dimensions (except in the playability areas--scale related and setup related)as dictated by existing models. That helps. I know I'm not going to build a flawless instrument. But I think I get as much or more satisfaction out of making one that looks flawless to everyone else because I did a good job of overcoming boneheaded mistakes--or material flaws. So far I haven't buggered up something so badly it needed to be burned. Probably that means I just haven't built enough guitars yet. SR Edited April 20, 2012 by ScottR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Personaly, Iv disliked almost every damned thing Iv ever built, Never seem to be happy. Even if the customer absolutly loved it, most of the time I just see areas I wish had come out better. But its all good. I mean, the day you start to produce stuff (be it cars or guitars) & think "yea - thats fookin brilliant" for every single one is a bad day. Ego has no real place in any atrform, Once you start believing your own hype & stop trying to improve it all goes to ****. Doubt is a good thing in a healthy dose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar2005 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Personaly, Iv disliked almost every damned thing Iv ever built, Never seem to be happy. Even if the customer absolutly loved it, most of the time I just see areas I wish had come out better. But its all good. I mean, the day you start to produce stuff (be it cars or guitars) & think "yea - thats fookin brilliant" for every single one is a bad day. Ego has no real place in any atrform, Once you start believing your own hype & stop trying to improve it all goes to ****. Doubt is a good thing in a healthy dose. +1 on that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mender Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Here is a very famous quote for you: 'He who has never made a mistake has never done anything.' Everything you do in life carries the risk of making a mistake, that is a fact of life. If you shy away from everything that carries a possibility of making a mistake, then you won't be doing anything at all, and that in itself would be a mistake. You see, you simply can't get away from it, can you? Never beat yourself up over a mistake, it just isn't worth it. Either fix it, cover it, make it into a feature, or try again. That doesn't only apply to guitar building, but everything in life. So, build and be happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezV Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 all i remember are the mistakes. its usually quite nice to see a guitar after a few years to remind me it was actually pretty good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 My $.02, do with it what you will. Chris Is that a God of Fire I see in there? If so, excellent choice! I am in the same boat as Chris, when I have a major error I take some time off. I've tried working through it to keep momentum, but things just got worse from there. I have no set cool down time, I just come back when it feels right. I haven't built any guitars in almost a year because I fought the last one so much that I was just burned out from the stress. The end result turned out great and the customer was thrilled, but all I remembered was the time spent making repairs. But it still does not discourage me from pursuing this and trying to make a decent go of this as a side business. I just knew it was time to step back and clear my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Ihocky, it is indeed. I thought it apt for the situation. You a cigar guy too? Only other thing I really build besides guitars is humidors which, appropriately, is another good way to destress and not mess with guitars while not stopping completely. Go build something else that doesn't have the stress tied to it. I'm MUCH less concerned about mistakes in furniture than in instruments! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 hmmmm.... here are some random thoughts on the subject. +1 SR, paulie, ihocky, chris... I have a strong 90% perfectionist streak in me that drives me nuts. But with guitars it is the building and playing them when they are done that I love so I try to leverage the 10% to allow for minor imperfections. I hate mistakes. They piss me off... for about a day. I have learned over the years to not get mad at myself and just chalk it up as lack of attention or bad luck. I do the SR thing and say "Way to go idiot you really hosed that one" to myself. If it is early in the day I move to a different guitar and keep going. If it is later in the day I stop and go inside and hang out with my family. Sometimes if they are really bad I burn the piece so I am not tempted to fix it. I often refuse to sell guitars with mistakes... that lasts a few months until someone begs me enough to sell them the reject (reject in my eyes..not theirs). Using the CNC has been a test of my patience and ability to cover up mistakes. It makes me feel like I am never going to "get it" I like mistakes so small no one notices after they are fixed and I am the only one who can see them. I try to be the best builder/luthier I can but I will never be able to make a masterpiece (in my eyes) as I lack the devotion and patience. I never feel my guitars are good enough but I survive. Compliments from complete strangers help. As well as critiques because that means they liked the guitar enough to really inspect/play it. I judge my guitars on the input of people other than my close friends. And I take my close friends suggestions to heart if they don't like something because it is probably pretty bad. I know it is ok when someone who can play really well won't put it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted April 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Just to clarify, I've started this thread for people to discuss the emotional ups and downs of building, not to have a sook or look for pats on the back. Most people have taken it that way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliemc Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Just to clarify, I've started this thread for people to discuss the emotional ups and downs of building, not to have a sook or look for pats on the back. Most people have taken it that way! Hmm. OK. You seem to have missed one fundamental issue here. Most of us are blokes. we dont have emotions. emotions are what women have. blokes have big dogs, harleys, beers, V8's & half stacks. But I dont realy get emotional on any level when building. Its almost kinda too involved mentaly for that. You get so focused on the task at hand that you dont realy feel anything, except maby dead calm. I suppose its kinda theraputic. But on occasion it does all go wrong, & then frustration with the project usualy ends up in rage. the gitir gets tied to one of the big trees in the yard & butchered with an axe. Then its back to dead calm again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verhoevenc Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 blokes have big dogs, harleys, beers, V8's & half stacks. Only a half!? I thought you said we're blokes here? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiKro Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Yep I'm down to only one half stack and a 212. Sold a half stack and a full in the past few years. Too many complaints from the neighbors as well as the wife. She didn't like me changing her heart beat in mid step or the windows rattling. I must be getting old, I know I'm deaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prostheta Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Mistakes are positive if you take something from them. Being "professional" depends on how you perceive that term. A pro can either be perfect, cover up mistakes or just accept them as a normal occurrence. It is what it is. An amateur accepts mistakes readily, and will likely just repeat them without learning jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Our Souls inc. Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 ........ I question if I'm wasting my time trying to build guitars and I wonder if I'm playing at a hobby where I should just give up and leave it to the professionals. Anyone else have similar thoughts or other sorts of self doubt they normally wouldn't talk about? I think the thing to consider is this : is it a hobby or a profession? I can honestly laugh at my mistakes because it is a hobby. I have several builds that I started over a year ago that hit a snag or twelve during the build and they got shelved. Often if the mistake haunts me, I'll abandon progress on that build until my life is in a different state. None have been burned or destroyed, but a couple hang on the wall to remind me of my short-comings. Self doubt will only hamper progress, and even Tiger Woods has a bad day now and then. Mistakes can be a great teacher, begrudgingly or not. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 all i remember are the mistakes. its usually quite nice to see a guitar after a few years to remind me it was actually pretty good +1 to that. The first guitar I built that I sold was to an uncle of mine when I was 15with very little knowledge of what I was doing and everytime I see it now I remember all the mistakes I made on it but it's kind of nice at the same time because you can look at your current progress and see th improvment. The first three guitars I sold were to family members so it's fun to line them up and see the areas that I did better on or worse at as I built more. But yeah if it frustrates you give it time. I was once told that we are "paid problem solvers" and I have learned that is very true. With my current acoustic build I clamped the neck wrong and when using hot hide glue you only have like a minute to spread the glue and get it clamped before it gels and I rushed it being paranoid that I was taking to much time and when I came back the next day a clamp had fallen off and the heel didn't glue down, I found out the dovetail was fine so I just took scrapers and sandpaper and fit it back down until I could get glue in. Learn to hide mistakes and no one will know. I do agree though that some builders hold a higher standard for guitars and the guitars we built. I usually only remember mistakes and when people look at my guitars and say they are great I always catch myself about to say "yeah but look at this dent here or scratch here or gap there" Just bite your tounge because they will probably never notice if whatever part is 1/64th inch off or whatever. I've had to shelf a couple builds out of frustration, burned one and almost took my 12 guage to another but I just take a break if I get pissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RestorationAD Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hmm. OK. You seem to have missed one fundamental issue here. Most of us are blokes. we dont have emotions. emotions are what women have. blokes have big dogs, harleys, beers, V8's & half stacks. Hell yeah... I have a Ducati and a Mesa Mark IV w/4x12 and 30 or so bad ass guitars (most built by some hack). Emotions... *** are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juntunen Guitars Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hmm. OK. You seem to have missed one fundamental issue here. Most of us are blokes. we dont have emotions. emotions are what women have. blokes have big dogs, harleys, beers, V8's & half stacks. Hell yeah... I have a Ducati and a Mesa Mark IV w/4x12 and 30 or so bad ass guitars (most built by some hack). Emotions... *** are they? Wish I had a Ducati but I'm fine with my Mustang for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonx Posted April 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 Well if we're playing this game...! I've got a 57 chevy (about 400hp) a Marshall half stack (had two stacks but have downsized over the last couple years) and two German Shepherds. I only drink Bourbon/Whiskey or Moonshine. My go to is Makers Mark. Guess this just became a pic thread! My Chev: My last car: Thats me in the drivers seat - outside the shed where I build my guitars The dogs: The Marshall (far left) and me with the white Warlock - pic taken eleven years ago whilst playing a gig in Melbourne supporting Anarazel and Hellspawn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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